Hate Crime Laws are Stupid

Discussion in 'Ethics, Morality, & Justice' started by madanthonywayne, Dec 24, 2009.

  1. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    12,461
    A recent story about an 8th grade honor student being savagely beaten highlighted the idiocy of hate crime laws:
    What began as an innocent mistake ended in a vicious attack on a local honor student.

    Police said as many as 11 students beat up an eighth-grader honor student in an apparent case of revenge. The victim, who is Hispanic, suffered severe injuries, and it was possible he may lose sight in one eye. It is not believed, however, that he was the victim of a hate crime. Police said the student who threw the first punch was also Hispanic, and the other students all come from diverse backgrounds.

    The incident, which occurred near the Janis Dismus Middle School school soccer field, was so violent that 13-year-old David Muneton needed reconstructive surgery to his face to correct several broken bones.

    His friends at the Janis Dismus Middle School in Englewood are stunned.

    "It's so hard. … I'm his best friend," Denise Melendez said before breaking down in tears.

    Police have arrested seven students from both the middle school and high school, charging them with aggravated assault. The youngest one is just 12 years old.

    Investigators said the teenagers jumped Muneton on Friday as he walked home from school to get back at him for an earlier incident during which the eighth-grader accidentally hit a girl with a basketball.
    CBS
    So, he may lose vision in one eye and will require facial recontruction surgery BUT; at least he was beaten by a racially diverse gang of punks. Thank God for that. I'll bet he was thinking, as his face was literally shattered by the violent attack, at least this isn't a hate crime!
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    I agree with you
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,397
    see, multiculturalism does work!
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. visceral_instinct Monkey see, monkey denigrate Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,913
    Jesus that's fucked up. So long as it was a racially diverse gang of assailants, it's ok that they beat the snot out of him??

    That's sick.

    If I had my way those kids would all have one eye removed, to be like him.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  8. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,397
    that'd show them violence was wrong, while teaching your child appropriate behaviour at the same time! nah i know what you mean.
     
  9. ogdred Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    64
    Where in that excerpt does it state that the attack is somehow "no big deal" because it isn't a hate crime?
     
  10. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,266
    the article simply states that the boy was "not a victim of a hate crime." it does in no way suggest that it is therefore a lesser crime, or that the perpetrators are to be held less accountable. nevertheless, naming what it is not is hardly pertinent or relevant to the story; rather, it simply suggests a media preoccupation with "hate crimes," or perhaps simply that the writer of the piece is inept: being a cbs news story, it is composed so as to be readily understandable by individuals reading at the third grade level. i do not suspect that the writer shall be winning a pulitzer anytime soon.

    regardless, ought a "hate crime" be considered a more heinous offense? and ought such be a consideration in determining the punishment? certainly, such a factor ought to be considered, as should any and all factors related to the incident; but i don't know how much such should define the gravity--how does one even go about determining whether an incident is a "hate crime"? in certain instances, a clearly defined prejudice shall be obvious--but what about rape, spousal or partner abuse, and crimes of this nature? in most, not all, instances these crimes are strongly suggestive of a very strong gender bias--or "hate"--but seldom are they described as "hate crimes."
     
  11. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,266
    exactly. (see above) it does in no way suggest this, the excerpt only suggests a media tendency or focus.
     
  12. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,397
    Good point, its only that its located so early in the article that i read that connotation into it. I think there's an expectation for news articles to be very specifically structured. Look at how news anchors all speak in the same ridiculous way. no one speaks like that in real life.
     
  13. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    37,884
    It's not like what you're up to isn't clear to anyone woh looks

    Yes, we understand that you want to be able to beat people up for no other reason than their ethnicity or religion and have it treated just the same as a bunch of half-witted, hormone-driven children playing out a misguided revenge fantasy.

    Admirable, I suppose. At least for its convenience.
     
  14. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    54,036
    I agree with Mad, hate crime laws are stupid. An assault is a crime. If you are further prosecuted because your motivation was hate, that makes thought itself a crime. It should be legal to hate whomever you wish.
     
  15. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    25,817
    But if you are charged with a the crime, don't you also face federal charges? And aren't those sentences usually harsher?
     
  16. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    23,053
    Yeah. But look at it this way;

    If a white guy beats the shit outta' a black guy, and they deem it a hate crime (racial hatred or something), the white guy is found guilty and punished with, say, 20 years in prison.

    Now ...the same white guy beats the shit outta' another white guy, no one would call that a hate crime. So the guy gets, say, 5 years in prison.

    What's that say to us? Well, it says pretty damned plainly that black men are more valuable than white guys in the view of the law! Or at the very least, that one black guy was more valuable than a white guy. Seems wrong, don't it?

    I agree with Spidergoat ... "An assault is a crime. If you are further prosecuted because your motivation was hate, that makes thought itself a crime. It should be legal to hate whomever you wish."

    Baron Max
     
  17. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    25,817
    If a black guy beats up a white guy and gets 10 yrs instea dof 5, does that mean white guys are more valuable?

    It just means you can only beat up someone of the same skin colour, gender, race, ethnic background, religion, and sexual orientation. Its that simple!!!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  18. EntropyAlwaysWins TANSTAAFL. Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,123
    You can't police thought, and even if you could, you shouldn't.
    Hate crimes are simply the lapse of an individuals ability to keep in check their hatred (momentary or otherwise) of some other individual or group and are in that regard not different in any significant way from an equivalent violent crime that is not deemed to be a hate crime.
    If you punch someone because of the colour of their skin, or their gender, or their intelligence, or because they were standing on the wrong side of the room or any number of inane reasons you have caused just as much damage as any other reason.

    The damage is the violent attack, that is the crime, not the thought process that lead to it.
     
  19. Randwolf Ignorance killed the cat Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,201
    That, ladies and gents, pretty well sums it up...
     
  20. superstring01 Moderator

    Messages:
    12,110
    Agree.

    Just prosecute the crime. It's not like we're softies on crime or advocating softy-ness on crime. Hell, I'm okay with executing the murderers and serial rapists.

    ~String
     
  21. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    11,529
    Precisely
     
  22. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    9,879
    Crime is crime no matter what the motivating factor.
     
  23. WillNever Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,595
    Color me confused. In what way is this event an indictment of hate crime laws? Someone clue me in here.

    It says they were arrested. I know, reading is hard.
     

Share This Page