what if God could be proven?

**786** · 11-16-09, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by (Q)

You have no concept of logic to begin with. Gods are illogical. There is no reasoning for their existence.

You need to understand logic.... There is 'reasoning' but no 'physical evidence'- Go learn the difference.

Peace be unto you

**786** · 11-16-09, 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by (Q)

God would be evidence for god. Happy now?

Ya... although that wasn't the point.

Peace be unto you

**(Q)** · 11-16-09, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by 786

You need to understand logic.... There is 'reasoning' but no 'physical evidence'- Go learn the difference.

And, reasoning without physical evidence is...?

*wait for it*

**S.A.M.** · 11-16-09, 05:46 PM

mathematics? abstract? logic?

**WillNever** · 11-16-09, 05:50 PM

SAM. 786 seems to not want to fully divulge his reasons for believing in his god-myth.

Would you like to state yours? Can you tell us where you were first exposed to your god-myth (islam?). Did you come up with that god-myth yourself? Have you had a vision of your god-myth at any point in your life? How come you believe in your god-myth but not in leprechauns and faeries..? Is it because such other god-myths aren't culturally Indian..?

Is your culture a good basis for accepting a god-myth into your reality?

**786** · 11-16-09, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by WillNever

Ah, did you believe you had a vision of your god at one point or did you attribute an act you witnessed to the idea of a god you already believed in?

No, I've never seen/heard God- I'm not someone who claims god spoke to me.

What leads you to believe that the universe is meaningful and why do you believe that only a god-myth can provide that meaning for you?

Universe has meaning because I say it does.... Also its not about 'meaning for me' but meaning for the universe.

What first led you to the belief in a god? Did you come up with the idea yourself? Or did you hear about your god from others, such as your parents/culture/friends?

Are you the first ever atheist? Did you come up with that idea?

If we're talking about logical in the sense of "it being remotely possible and I can't think of anything else disregarding the scientific reasons we already accept,"

There is no 'disregarding science', that is the problem.... You don't even know what science says- you extrapolate from it the worldview based on a equally unprovable concept of 'randomness' (read God of Science thread).

then why don't you believe in leprechauns and fairies too? How do you know they didn't create the world? The mythology behind those god-myths would be as equally "logical."

They can be logical until you dismiss them eventually... I'm not going to go through every single 'logical' choice to satisfy your question....

Peace be unto you

**WillNever** · 11-16-09, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by 786

No, I've never seen/heard God- I'm not someone who claims god spoke to me.

So... if you have no demonstrable reason for believing in the existence of your god-myth... why do you? It doesn't make sense to believe in one and not another... especially when all the major ones (christianity, islam, judaism) are derived from the same ancient Sumerian myth.

Universe has meaning because I say it does.... Also its not about 'meaning for me' but meaning for the universe.

But that runs counter to what you said earlier. Earlier, you were suggesting that the universe has meaning and attributed that to your god-myth.

Are you the first ever atheist? Did you come up with that idea?

An atheist in what sense? Who said I believe there are no gods? I simply haven't accepted any existing god-myth into my sense of reality. The two aren't the same thing.

There is no 'disregarding science', that is the problem.... You don't even know what science says- you extrapolate from it the worldview based on a equally unprovable concept of 'randomness' (read God of Science thread).

Such ramblings don't make sense, 786.

They can be logical until you dismiss them eventually... I'm not going to go through every single 'logical' choice to satisfy your question....

Peace be unto you

Correction: they can be logical for as long as you make up a logical story behind them. Essentially, that is what humans have done for EVERY god-myth we have in the world. Some have made up more logical stories than others, however. Islam definitely is one of the less logical ones, though.

**(Q)** · 11-16-09, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by S.A.M.

mathematics? abstract? logic?

Is that what god is, Sam?

**786** · 11-16-09, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by WillNever

So... if you have no demonstrable reason for believing in the existence of your god-myth... why do you? It doesn't make sense to believe in one and not another... especially when all the major ones (christianity, islam, judaism) are derived from the same ancient Sumerian myth.

You need to understand what 'reason' means-- that is why I was pointing at the stupidity of the context of your question to begin with.

But that runs counter to what you said earlier. Earlier, you were suggesting that the universe has meaning and attributed that to your god-myth.

If it has meaning then there must be someone who made it with meaning, hence God. I believe the universe has meaning the direct result is that there must be a God.

An atheist in what sense? Who said I believe there are no gods? I simply haven't accepted any existing god-myth into my sense of reality. The two aren't the same thing.

Well then that is your choice...

Such ramblings don't make sense, 786.

Its called denial

Correction: they can be logical for as long as you make up a logical story behind them. Essentially, that is what humans have done for EVERY god-myth we have in the world. Some have made up more logical stories than others, however. Islam definitely is one of the less logical ones, though.

Knowing that you don't know what reason is I have nothing to expect from your 'logic'

Peace be unto you

**WillNever** · 11-16-09, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by 786

You need to understand what 'reason' means-- that is why I was pointing at the stupidity of the context of your question to begin with.

I think you don't know the meaning of the word, 786.

If it has meaning then there must be someone who made it with meaning, hence God. I believe the universe has meaning the direct result is that there must be a God.

Why is a god-myth the result of you happening to believe in a vague sense of meaning in the universe?

Its called denial

That thread is about your denial? I know.

Knowing that you don't know what reason is I have nothing to expect from your 'logic'

Peace be unto you

You haven't stated a reason yet, though.

MW:
reason: "a rational ground or motive"

This is the definition I am going by.

**786** · 11-16-09, 06:08 PM

Originally Posted by WillNever

reason: "a rational ground or motive"

This is the definition I am going by.

That is a cyclic definition, as is your screwed up logic.

reason requires rationale- rationale requires reason. You can have fun with your cyclical reasoning.

Peace be unto you

**(Q)** · 11-16-09, 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by 786

You need to understand what 'reason' means--

Why is it a faith based theist like yourself who hasn't a clue comes to a science forum telling everyone they don't know what 'reason and logic' is about, yet you've been unable to formulate one iota of reason and logic.

Every so-called reason you come up with is always, "God did it"

If it has meaning then there must be someone who made it with meaning, hence God.

And, there you go again saying, "God did it" with not an ounce of reason or logic in your statement. No alternatives, no discussion, no thought process, just one faith based statement of absolution.

I believe the universe has meaning the direct result is that there must be a God.

All logic, all reasoning and all thought process completely non-existent. Faith based delusion is all you know and all you ever offer.

**(Q)** · 11-16-09, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by 786

your screwed up logic.

reason requires rationale- rationale requires reason. You can have fun with your cyclical reasoning.

Cyclical reasoning? Don't you mean circular reasoning?

**WillNever** · 11-16-09, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by 786

That is a cyclic definition, as is your screwed up logic.

reason requires rationale- rationale requires reason. You can have fun with your cyclical reasoning.

Peace be unto you

Nay 786, that's the dictionary definition for it, according to my pocket webster here. You not liking that definition doesn't change that.

**786** · 11-16-09, 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by (Q)

Cyclical reasoning? Don't you mean circular reasoning?

True.

Peace be unto you

**786** · 11-16-09, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by (Q)

... unable to formulate one iota of reason and logic

You don't know what logic is... your cultist ideas don't allow to utilize such a tool

Peace be unto you

**786** · 11-16-09, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by WillNever

Nay 786, that's the dictionary definition for it, according to my pocket webster here. You not liking that definition doesn't change that.

I'm perfectly fine with it, except that it will be circular- I don't care if you want to see that.

Peace be unto you

**Lori_7** · 11-16-09, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by NMSquirrel

this isn't a 'prove to me' god exists thread..
this is a 'what if' thread..

what if god could be proven beyond any doubt?
what if god were to show himself so that everyone would not doubt his existence?

how would that change reality as we know it?
wouldn't that create a society where we no longer have any choices?
i think personal responsibility would be non-existant..
would we have any more technological advances? or would we revert back to a technologyless society?

seems to me that it would make no difference at all. god or no god, the people would still be the same old people.

*imagines Q in the corner with his eyes shut and his hands over his ears going "la, la, la, la" real loud*

**786** · 11-16-09, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Lori_7

*imagines Q in the corner with his eyes shut and his hands over his ears going "la, la, la, la" real loud*

Peace be unto you

**~~mike47~~** · 11-16-09, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by WillNever

I'm not asking about scientific. I'm asking about logical. If something isn't logical, then it doesn't make sense. If it doesn't make sense, then it isn't true.

So my question to you was, why do you believe in a god-myth? What is compelling you to devote yourself to such beliefs? Are you merely a product of the way you were raised? Or do you find illogic to be more comforting than logic?

You have no proof whatsoever that there is no God ( creator ) .
Where is your proof ?!.