what if God could be proven?

**786** · 11-16-09, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by spidergoat

Are you suggesting that we believe something that can never be observed? I have an invisible unicorn to sell you. Please see your PM.

I am not suggesting anything about what you should believe or what you shouldn't. That is your own extrapolation. I was only talking about the subject of evidence for the supernatural.

Peace be unto you

**spidergoat** · 11-16-09, 04:20 PM

So you assert belief in something for which no evidence is possible? That's the definition of irrationality.

**(Q)** · 11-16-09, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by 786

have we measured all of them at various points in time to determine the changes?

The forces have been measured for some time and get measured more precisely as time goes on.

**786** · 11-16-09, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by spidergoat

So you assert belief in something for which no evidence is possible? That's the definition of irrationality.

Irrationality is believing in something which can not be rationalized. To rationalize you must use reason- logic is used when reasoning. God can logically exist so the downstream word 'irrationality' can not be applied.

Peace be unto you

**786** · 11-16-09, 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by (Q)

The forces have been measured for some time and get measured more precisely as time goes on.

I'm talking about all the forces? And not only on earth but of the whole universe.... You have to be kidding me if you say 'yes'.

Peace be unto you

**(Q)** · 11-16-09, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by 786

I was only talking about the subject of evidence for the supernatural.

We can extrapolate the evidence of how the universe works and conclude that the physical laws appear to guide those workings. The laws do appear quite consistent.

If one wishes to add a further layer of complexity and confusion to this explanation, they can opine supernatural forces are pulling the strings.

But, wouldn't the supernatural force be exactly the same as the force itself? What point would there be in adding the extra layer of complexity?

**(Q)** · 11-16-09, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by 786

I'm talking about all the forces?

So was I, and if you are aware of any other forces in the universe, there is a Nobel or two waiting for you.

And not only on earth but of the whole universe.... You have to be kidding me if you say 'yes'.

You really don't comprehend much, do you?

Peace be unto you

Remedial reading be unto you.

**(Q)** · 11-16-09, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by 786

Irrationality is believing in something which can not be rationalized.

God can logically exist

Then, you are entirely irrational if you don't believe there is an invisible pink dragon living in my attic. The dragon can logically exist.

**786** · 11-16-09, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by (Q)

So was I, and if you are aware of any other forces in the universe, there is a Nobel or two waiting for you.

Well I wasn't talking about 'different forces'- I was talking about all forces! What I mean by 'all forces' is all the force vectors associated with every single atom in the universe- they have managed to measure all of the forces for each individual atom?

Damn I wonder why they can't predict a coin flip.

You really don't comprehend much, do you?

Its not about comprehension... You are telling me that someone has measured every single force in the universe? I know they know which forces exist but to measure all the forces, that is they know exactly the force vectors of the momentum of each atom in the universe, they know the potential energy of each atom in the world, they know the kinetic energy of each atom in the universe, they know the electrical charge that each atom currently carries... Okay great

Peace be unto you

**786** · 11-16-09, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by (Q)

Then, you are entirely irrational if you don't believe there is an invisible pink dragon living in my attic. The dragon can logically exist.

Yes they can logically exist but its not irrational to not believe them. As it is not irrational not to believe in God. Believing and not believing in either is not irrational. You simply can't accept this, as you must put the other side down as idiots or irrational.

Peace be unto you

**(Q)** · 11-16-09, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by 786

Well I wasn't talking about 'different forces'- I was talking about all forces! What I mean by 'all forces' is all the force vectors associated with every single atom in the universe- they have managed to measure all of the forces for each individual atom?

Every individual atom in the universe? Are you serious?

Its not about comprehension... You are telling me that someone has measured every single force in the universe?

There aren't that many to measure. They've been done.

they know exactly the force vectors of the momentum of each atom in the universe, they know the potential energy of each atom in the world, they know the kinetic energy of each atom in the universe, they know the electrical charge that each atom currently carries... Okay great

The properties of a hydrogen atom, for example, will be the same anywhere in the universe.

**(Q)** · 11-16-09, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by 786

Yes they can logically exist but its not irrational to not believe them.

I was being facetious. No, they can't logically exist, not in our universe. It IS irrational to believe in an invisible pink dragon in my attic as it is to believe in gods.

As it is not irrational not to believe in God. Believing and not believing in either is not irrational. You simply can't accept this

Fine, as you say, I will not be irrational by not not believing in god.

So, now that I've given into not being irrational, when can I be expected to see this god? Or, will I never see him? Is there anything other than the natural worlds current mode of operation that I should be aware is not happening, but is happening, but I can't see it, even though it's supposed to be there?

you must put the other side down as idiots or irrational.

They are and they are.

**S.A.M.** · 11-16-09, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by (Q)

an invisible pink dragon in my attic

Is he still there? Its been two years now, have you named him yet?

edit:Oops its dragon, I guess the unicorn has left.

**786** · 11-16-09, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by (Q)

They are and they are.

So you're from a cult

Peace be unto you

**WillNever** · 11-16-09, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by 786

Your inability to examine something doesn't mean its not there either

Peace be unto you

Why do you believe in something unexaminable? Why do you choose to believe one unexaminable thing to the exclusion of other unexaminable things, such as the god of your religion vs. the gods of all other religions.

If you're going to believe in one god-myth, then shouldn't you believe in every other god-myth too? Or do you believe that your god-myth has more "proof" to it than the others?

**786** · 11-16-09, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by (Q)

Every individual atom in the universe? Are you serious.

Yes.... how else would you determine changes to the system, when it is the individual forces summed up that give you the force/energy of the system.

Peace be unto you

**786** · 11-16-09, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by WillNever

Why do you believe in something unexaminable? Why do you choose to believe one unexaminable thing to the exclusion of other unexaminable things, such as the god of your religion vs. the gods of all other religions.

Because I can?

Peace be unto you

**WillNever** · 11-16-09, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by 786

Because I can?

Peace be unto you

But that isn't a reason.

Distilled down, what you're saying is "I believe in a god-myth because I like illogic more than logic." Care to expound?

Not that I think you'll be able to.

**786** · 11-16-09, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by WillNever

But that isn't a reason.

Distilled down, what you're saying is "I believe in a god-myth because I like illogic more than logic." Care to expound?

Not that I think you'll be able to.

Actually first you need to realize the difference between something being logical and something being scientific. Because that is the primary problem with atheists- it can be seen from your assertion that God is illogical-

Peace be unto you

**~~mike47~~** · 11-16-09, 05:14 PM

Taking the big " if " in consideration all the time I say :
It will be a very good thing to know that there is a God ( creator ) and then try to find out about him . Now all people do not know if there is one God or multiple Gods or no God at all . They are all just imagining and living in a world of non evidence when it comes to the word " God ".
Any scientific proof that proves a God exists is really a huge success .
Did I forget about IF ?. No not really .