what if God could be proven?

[BlueRidge]

Not quite. Intelligent Design is the fantasy of people who want it to be true but lack the evidence.


Yeah, drugs will do that to you...

So do plane crashes and electrocution. But I'm not here to impress upon you the "evidence". Once in a while someone gets called on and their world is changed in a second. It's worth reading about before you go instantly dismissing it.

[fedr808]

Not quite. Intelligent Design is the fantasy of people who want it to be true but lack the evidence.


Yeah, drugs will do that to you...

I figured it was the fantasy of people that wanted to feel as though they were special.

[Dywyddyr]

So do plane crashes and electrocution.

Exactly: severe trauma causes the release of a natural drug into the brain (DMT): that drug has been shown to cause NDE-type experiences.

But I'm not here to impress upon you the "evidence".

There is no evidence.

Once in a while someone gets called on and their world is changed in a second.

Like I said, drugs will do that to you.

It's worth reading about before you go instantly dismissing it.

It's worth finding out how much I've actually read before you go instantly assuming I don't know anything.
Or maybe you should read up before accepting the first explanation...
We have threads here discussing the "reality" of NDEs that go back years.

[BlueRidge]

There is no evidence.


Like I said, drugs will do that to you.


It's worth finding out how much I've actually read before you go instantly assuming I don't know anything.
Or maybe you should read up before accepting the first explanation...
We have threads here discussing the "reality" of NDEs that go back years.

Ok, fair enough. Let me ask you something. Simple yes or no. Do you believe in love?

[Dywyddyr]

Ok, fair enough. Let me ask you something. Simple yes or no. Do you believe in love?

"Believe" in love?
Why should I believe in it?
Do I believe in anger?
Do I believe in pain?
It's there, it's real.
It doesn't require belief any more than my left leg requires it.
It exists.
Your point?

[BlueRidge]

"Believe" in love?
Why should I believe in it?
Do I believe in anger?
Do I believe in pain?
It's there, it's real.
It doesn't require belief any more than my leg leg requires it.
It exists.
Your point?

Do YOU personally believe in love? Yes or no would work.

[Dywyddyr]

Do YOU personally believe in love? Yes or no would work.

Like I said: it doesn't need belief.
I don't believe in house bricks, nor do I believe in love.
I don't understand the question.
Love exists.

[BlueRidge]

Like I said: it doesn't need belief.
I don't believe in house bricks, nor do I believe in love.
I don't understand the question.
Love exists.

Again, please, yes or no. Do you personally believe in love?

[Dywyddyr]

Again, please, yes or no. Do you personally believe in love?

Which bit of "I don't understand the question" do you not understand?
What do you mean by "believe in love"?
Do YOU believe in house bricks?

Edit: if I say "yes" will you get to the point?

[BlueRidge]

Which bit of "I don't understand the question" do you not understand?
What do you mean by "believe in love"?
Do YOU believe in house bricks?

Edit: if I say "yes" will you get to the point?

The answer is yes. Thank you.

Science can prove what the human body experiences when it feels love. Scientist themselves fall in love. We all understand the feeling of "love". But you can't take "love" and put it in a test tube. Love isn't something you can hold in your hand, but most of the world agrees it exist and experiences it. Yet never question it?

As a Christian myself, I need no evidence of God. Just like a scientist needs no evidence of love.

[Dywyddyr]

The answer is yes. Thank you.

Wrong: the answer isn't "yes".
I said "If I say yes..." just so you'd get to the point.

But you can't take "love" and put it in a test tube. Love isn't something you can hold in your hand

Neither is "pain", or "a cold" or "a thought".
Fail.

As a Christian myself, I need no evidence of God. Just like a scientist needs no evidence of love.

Also wrong: love is a chemical imbalance (lack of serotonin among other things).
We have evidence of love.
Hence my comment that love requires belief no more than does a house brick. It exists.

[BlueRidge]

Wrong: the answer isn't "yes".
I said "If I say yes..." just so you'd get to the point.


Neither is "pain", or "a cold" or "a thought".
Fail.


Also wrong: love is a chemical imbalance (lack of serotonin among other things).
We have evidence of love.
Hence my comment that love requires belief no more than does a house brick. It exists.

You see my point? Science is always looking for "evidence". Right? Yet for all science knows about "love" which can't be held in your hand. When God enters a person's life science ignores it, yet science might try the same methods. If they believed. If you don't believe in something you won't pursue it's existence.

What keeps me captivated is people who never believe in God, Heaven, or hell... Sometimes find themselves at the very door step of. Why? You will never get me to accept that something as complex as DNA, evolved.

Nice chatting with you, but I have chores on my desk. Gotta run.

[Dywyddyr]

You see my point?

Nope.

Science is always looking for "evidence".

That's the job of science. Complaining about that is like complaining the cinema doesn't provide fast cars.

Yet for all science knows about "love" which can't be held in your hand.

And again: you can't hold "a mile", "a cold", "pain", "three", "a conversation" etc in your hand either - but we know what they do/ how they behave.

When God enters a person's life science ignores it

Because there's no evidence of "god", nor of him "entering someone's life".

If you don't believe in something you won't pursue it's existence.

Exactly: and what does exist provides its own evidence and doesn't require "belief".

What keeps me captivated is people who never believe in God, Heaven, or hell... Sometimes find themselves at the very door step of. Why?

Not sure what you mean, but cultural influences among other things could account for it.

You will never get me to accept that something as complex as DNA, evolved.

Which says much about your critical abilities.

[BlueRidge]

Nope.


That's the job of science. Complaining about that is like complaining the cinema doesn't provide fast cars.


And again: you can't hold "a mile", "a cold", "pain", "three", "a conversation" etc in your hand either - but we know what they do/ how they behave.


Because there's no evidence of "god", nor of him "entering someone's life".


Exactly: and what does exist provides its own evidence and doesn't require "belief".


Not sure what you mean, but cultural influences among other things could account for it.


Which says much about your critical abilities.

Ok, let me put put to you this way. Science tends to lay burden of proof where? Because there is zero belief. If the same science was applied to God working in a person's life, that is applied to proving love... Follow me? Cultural influences do have part in NDE. But a person who never believed in a thing, is revived and has a story to tell of going up or going down, meeting their maker etc. Your average NDE doesn't come back talking about their trip Disney. Do you recall a story in the news about 2 years ago. A woman checks out, real permanent. Rigamortis sets in, she's room temperature and DEAD as dead as gets. Then hours later she sits up on the gurney with an appetite. All of this in the most modern of hospitals with the finest modern doctors. Miracle?

[Dywyddyr]

Science tends to lay burden of proof where?

Science doesn't do "proof". But it requires evidence.

If the same science was applied to God working in a person's life, that is applied to proving love... Follow me?

I'm ahead of you: you're assuming that evidence of god is available, the same way there is evidence of love. There isn't.
You're also assuming that science hasn't looked at what is claimed as evidence. You think in X thousand years of claims of god no-one has bothered to take a serious look at the claims?
Science in its infancy had people looking for evidence of the soul and other, similar, supporting *cough* data.

Cultural influences do have part in NDE. But a person who never believed in a thing, is revived and has a story to tell of going up or going down, meeting their maker etc.

I didn't say "they believed" I said "cultural influences": even atheists grow up in a society saturated with religious references and undertones (in the West at least).

A woman checks out, real permanent. Rigamortis sets in, she's room temperature and DEAD as dead as gets. Then hours later she sits up on the gurney with an appetite. All of this in the most modern of hospitals with the finest modern doctors. Miracle?

Which just goes to show that we still have things to learn about the human body, its functioning and processes.
I've never heard of the case, link please.
And the way you tell it immediately causes suspicion: rigor mortis doesn't start until approximately 3 hours after death, how long was the entire experience? "Hours later". How many hours? If rigor mortis truly had set in her muscles would have locked up...

[BlueRidge]

According to the report, she was ice cold and stiff as a board. 12 hours sticks in my mind, but please don't quote me on that. Sounds pretty dead to me.

I see the futility of this. Same problem every time I engage on this issue- I'll see it when I believe it.

[BlueRidge]

Ok got it- Val Thomas Story. Dead as a door nail, 17.5 hours.

“They couldn’t believe that my heart was in the condition it was when I went to Cleveland Clinic after what had happened. They didn’t find anything wrong either,” Val said. “He said, ‘medicine could not have done this,’ or ‘doctors could not have done this.’ And I said, ‘yes, it was a miracle from God.’”

“There are things that physicians and nurses, we can’t always explain; and I think this was one of those cases,” Dr. Eggleston said.

I wonder how many in the science community instantly ruled out intervention from a higher order? Google away friend.

[earth]

Ok got it- Val Thomas Story. Dead as a door nail, 17.5 hours.

“They couldn’t believe that my heart was in the condition it was when I went to Cleveland Clinic after what had happened. They didn’t find anything wrong either,” Val said. “He said, ‘medicine could not have done this,’ or ‘doctors could not have done this.’ And I said, ‘yes, it was a miracle from God.’”

“There are things that physicians and nurses, we can’t always explain; and I think this was one of those cases,” Dr. Eggleston said.

I wonder how many in the science community instantly ruled out intervention from a higher order? Google away friend.

I don't see one single link to your story.

[earth]

So do plane crashes and electrocution. But I'm not here to impress upon you the "evidence". Once in a while someone gets called on and their world is changed in a second. It's worth reading about before you go instantly dismissing it.

Have you been called?

[jpappl]

Here is more of the story:

Thomas, 59, was rushed to a West Virginia hospital, where she was put on a special machine to induce hypothermia. This would allow her body to cool down for 24 hours before they would warm her up again, doctors explained.

However, Thomas’ heart stopped again after the procedure.

Her family said their goodbyes and Thomas’ tubes were removed, but she remained hooked on a ventilator as the possibility of organ donation was discussed.

However, Thomas woke up 10 minutes later and started talking.

So she was still getting air and they attempted to save her by the process above. Looks like there could been a viable explanation for it that we just haven't discovered yet.

In which case, her case could help explain more about how the body works.

Doesn't mean gods were involved just that we don't understand everything about the human body.