what if God could be proven?

[b4uc]

Is the big bang the beginning? If so, where did the ingredients come from?

ingredients: 2 elements + force or energy + mass

0 x 0 = 0 , yes or no

[Dywyddyr]

Is the big bang the beginning? If so, where did the ingredients come from?

Nowhere.
Here's one explanation
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=92761

ingredients: 2 elements + force or energy + mass

2 elements?
And they would be?

0 x 0 = 0 , yes or no

Yes.
Which is not a proof of god.

[NMSquirrel]

this isn't supposed to be a thread about proving his existence..this is a thread to discuss what would society be like if god were proven,
what would you personally do if god were right in front of you?
what would he tell you to do? would you still be free to disobey him?
would you be obligated to do as you were told?
why would he even need us?

[Dywyddyr]

what would you personally do if god were right in front of you?

Ask why he seemingly f*cked up so much.

what would he tell you to do?

Not a clue since I'm not a mythical figure.

would you still be free to disobey him?

Depends on how much he exerted control. Can you disobey your parents?

would you be obligated to do as you were told?

I'd feel little obligation.

why would he even need us?

Now THAT is a good question.
Millions or billions of people "praying" does exactly what for him?
Boosts his ego?

[SnakeLord]

why would he even need us?

It's the very first theist error.

Nothing exists except god.
God is perfect.
Only perfection exists (from 2 and 1).

Creating anything can not improve upon the state of things, (i.e everything was already perfect).

A god, being perfect, would not want to lower the state of existing perfection, (a perfect god living in a perfect state would not desirte to create a state that was worse than it currently was. Things being perfect, any act of creation can only make things worse).

A god, being perfect and in a perfect state, wouldn't create anything. There's no point to the exercise.

[b4uc]

This debate needed a starting point and that point could be this.

Is this "god" the creator , or a creation ?

Is "god" Jewish, Christian, Hindi, Muslim. (created)
now, how do you wish to relate to "His/Her" Created ones.
The answer to your questions can only be found in your Religion
or lack there of.

thus, wars and religions will increase.

[NMSquirrel]

Ask why he seemingly f*cked up so much.

i think he would argue that it wasn't him that messed everything up..it was us..

I'd feel little obligation.

this isn't clear..is it you would likely obey him or not likely you would?

Now THAT is a good question.
Millions or billions of people "praying" does exactly what for him?
Boosts his ego?

dunno..some opinions say we are here for his entertainment..
if that is the case i would think we were a comedy show..
but i suppose we could be a drama...
for that matter even a disaster movie...lol

[NMSquirrel]

Is this "god" the creator , or a creation ?

this question was addressed in other threads

Is "god" Jewish, Christian, Hindi, Muslim. (created)
now, how do you wish to relate to "His/Her" Created ones.
The answer to your questions can only be found in your Religion
or lack there of.

god doesn't subscribe to religion..its the differences in our perceptions of god that creates the religions

thus, wars and religions will increase.

thus the wars....

[Jan Ardena]

Run from the future of rational thought!!!!!

You call that rational thinking?

jan.

[Dywyddyr]

i think he would argue that it wasn't him that messed everything up..it was us..

Except that he missed the opportunity (or ignored) to make things perfect.

this isn't clear..is it you would likely obey him or not likely you would?

I'd follow my own conscience, much as I do in real life.
If there's a law I don't like (and think is unjustifiable) I'll ignore it.

dunno..some opinions say we are here for his entertainment..
if that is the case i would think we were a comedy show..
but i suppose we could be a drama...
for that matter even a disaster movie...lol

We're an RTS game for him?
Age of Empires has fewer overall casualties.

[NMSquirrel]

Except that he missed the opportunity (or ignored) to make things perfect.
I'd follow my own conscience, much as I do in real life.
If there's a law I don't like (and think is unjustifiable) I'll ignore it.

i think those two statements make my point about god tapping someone to help in any given situation,and because we make our own descisions, its not gods fault that we don't act.its not him who missed the opportunity..it's us...


and i still have a problem with the word 'perfect'..their aint no such thing..

[Dywyddyr]

and i still have a problem with the word 'perfect'..their aint no such thing..

Isn't god supposed to be?
Are we supposed to be once we get to Heaven?

its not gods fault that we don't act.its not him who missed the opportunity..it's us...

On the contrary, why didn't he make us perfect in the first place?

[NMSquirrel]

Isn't god supposed to be?
Are we supposed to be once we get to Heaven?

he is perfect in our eyes,does he think he is perfect?

On the contrary, why didn't he make us perfect in the first place?

you are comparing our right/freedom to make our own choices to being perfect?
are you asking why do we make bad choices?
then the question comes up about what that perfection consists of..
what is perfect in your eyes is different than what is perfect in my eyes..
I really do not believe that god has a specific standard he wants each of us to be..his standard for you is different than his standard for me..
IOW..if we choose to listen to him and put what he tells us into practice then when we get to heaven we will be perfect,not to our standards but to his...

[Dywyddyr]

you are comparing our right/freedom to make our own choices to being perfect?

Nope.

are you asking why do we make bad choices?

Nope.

IOW..if we choose to listen to him and put what he tells us into practice then when we get to heaven we will be perfect,not to our standards but to his...

Why didn't he make us perfect to his standards (as we're supposedly going to be when we get there) to start with?

[NMSquirrel]

Why didn't he make us perfect to his standards (as we're supposedly going to be when we get there) to start with?

what fun would that be?

[Dywyddyr]

what fun would that be?

Wars, murders, deaths due to cancer etc.
That sort of fun?

[greenboy]

I don't want to argue because I won many arguments in the past, and people then hate me and they don't change, they change with the Holy Spirit working in their soul.
I not only love Jesus, but I know He exist, He is the only God I know who sacrificed and died for us, the only God who only requirement to be part of His life is to believe in HIM that's all, and the Only God allowing the Humankind to believe or not to believe in HIM . I am a botanist, and when I see Nature and the ecological world around me, the only explanation I have is, we have an active Designer, I don't have to understand everything because I am just a humble speck of dust in the Universe. and Science the only thing we do with it is to understand the Lord. Well anyway, I Do Love HIM, he showed to me many times He Exist and HE Takes personal care of me and His people. And he gives you the freedom to worship HIm or not, to believe him or not like a benevolent Father. I hope you can find Him and be happy for the rest of your life. GODSPEED!!!!

[Grim_Reaper]

I agree with Dywyddyr there is no god there may have been a Jesus but he was not the son of god he was not god he was not special he was just a man. A man that his follow warriors liked to look up to and the stories about his deeds were embellished every time they were retold until the were written down by several people from different points of view. It is no different then the old fish story it starts out as a 8 inches bass and ends up being a 500 foot two head shark that they brought on board with a nail clipper and a piece of string.

[greenboy]

I wonder what story about what fish you are talking about,
the story about the fish with a coin inside is the only I remember is close to the one you are talking about.
and that story is in Matthew 17:24
Jesus and his Disciples needed money to pay taxes.
So Jesus sent Peter to get the money, He did not wanted to offend the Roman, the Empire controlling the Jewish people at that time.
so Jesus told Peter:
" Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up, and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take and give them for me and thee". And this happened the way Jesus Said. Mathew 17:27.I can't find any description of the fish in the bible, and I believe when we are talking about God, we should be objective not subjective.And respectful of your opponent. And if you are an Atheist or from another religion the first thing you do is to know your opponent. In my case you need to know bible to talk about against Christian Believe. CIAO have a great Thanksgiving weekend. GB.

[greenboy]

God!

is the big bang the beginning? If so, where did the ingredients come from?

Ingredients: 2 elements + force or energy + mass

0 x 0 = 0 , yes or no