Islamic Extremism.

**Michael** · 10-27-09, 08:57 PM

What is Islamic Extremism?

I was looking at a Newsweek article and it started out like this: Capitalism is the key to fighting Muslim extremists. The biggest punch to "Islamic Extremism" comes from a growing Muslim middle class.

So? What exactly is "Islamic Extremism"?

Michael

**786** · 10-27-09, 09:30 PM

Islamic Extremism has many meanings. One related to extremist understanding of Islam, the other related to being able to use the concept to start wars and scaring the people to death about it for political and militant gains.

Peace be unto you

**Michael** · 10-27-09, 09:41 PM

An extreme understanding of Islam? What exactly does that sentence mean?

Which do you think is better? A world where everyone is Islamic or a world where there are a plethora of beliefs, some polytheism, some alienism, some monotheism, some atheists... etc...?

I think Islamic Extremists are the people who only see a world with Islam. Where ONLY Allah is the real god. Where ONLY the Qur'an is a valid religious book and all others are corrupt or flawed.

A normal non-extreme Muslim, I would suppose, would see the world is best with many different beliefs, where some people worship aliens and others worship Allah and still others worship many different Gods and Goddesses. Normal non-extreme Muslims think all religious books are equally valid as the Qur'an - that just happens to be their book.

**786** · 10-27-09, 09:45 PM

Extremism can be a natural consequence of living conditions. Extremism can also be simply a persons understanding. You don't need to be 'religious' to be an extremist- which is where you are going with this.

You should take psychology and sociology courses to better appreciate the concept of extremism.

Also don't confuse extremism with the concept of liberalism and conservatism- even these can be taken to extreme levels in which case you'll have Liberal Extremism and Conservative Extremism-

Peace be unto you

**Michael** · 10-27-09, 11:34 PM

Originally Posted by 786

Extremism can be a natural consequence of living conditions. Extremism can also be simply a persons understanding. You don't need to be 'religious' to be an extremist- which is where you are going with this.

You should take psychology and sociology courses to better appreciate the concept of extremism.

Also don't confuse extremism with the concept of liberalism and conservatism- even these can be taken to extreme levels in which case you'll have Liberal Extremism and Conservative Extremism-

Peace be unto you

So you're telling me that when Newsweek writes Islamic Extremist they mean people who have an extreme understanding of Islam?

Yes, I agree that living conditions CAN be one factor that brings about extremism. So can ideology.

Ever hear of Buddhist Extremism? Christian Extremism? Jewish Extremism? Scientology Extremism? If so it'd be interesting to see where the common thread runs through.

**786** · 10-27-09, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Michael

So you're telling me that when Newsweek writes Islamic Extremist they mean people who have an extreme understanding of Islam?

No... it could be medias attempt to continuously use the same word over and over again so that the public is fully drenched in fear when they hear those words by the imagery it creates- allowing governments to enter wars on the back of fear- or to use the concept to get elected to office like G.W Bush did to get elected in 2004.

Yes, I agree that living conditions CAN be one factor that brings about extremism. So can ideology.

Religious ideologies are based on text... and text has interpretive freedom.

Ever hear of Buddhist Extremism? Christian Extremism? Jewish Extremism? Scientology Extremism? If so it'd be interesting to see where the common thread runs through.

Yes I've heard of all those terms. I've even heard of Liberal Extremists and you can probably find Atheist Extremists if you google'd- All of them carry a different meaning of 'extremist' but none-the-less the terms do exist.

Peace be unto you

**~~Gustav~~** · 10-28-09, 12:24 AM

liberal extremism is probably marxism while islamic extremism is wahhabism

**Michael** · 10-28-09, 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by 786

No... it could be medias attempt to continuously use the same word over and over again so that the public is fully drenched in fear when they hear those words by the imagery it creates- allowing governments to enter wars on the back of fear- or to use the concept to get elected to office like G.W Bush did to get elected in 2004.

I agree there are extremists of many flavors.

Marxism was exampled.

However, seeing as in we are in two wars over "Islamic Extremists" I want to know what they are. You do agree that they exist right? You know, like the Marxists out there, there are "Islamic Extremists" that exist right?

If so, then how would you really define them? What are the characteristics of an "Islamic Extremist"?

So?
Michael

**786** · 10-28-09, 01:58 AM

Are you asking me to define Islamic Extremist in one shade when we know there are many...?

Or are you saying that we should define Islamic Extremist in the manner that you already have in mind so that you can have a kick out of this thread....

Peace be unto you

**Michael** · 10-28-09, 04:53 AM

I want to know how it's normally being used in society.

Also, "Islamic Fundamentalist" is bantered around quite a bit. What's that?

**Adstar** · 10-28-09, 06:58 AM

Originally Posted by Michael

What is Islamic Extremism?

I was looking at a Newsweek article and it started out like this: Capitalism is the key to fighting Muslim extremists. The biggest punch to "Islamic Extremism" comes from a growing Muslim middle class.

So? What exactly is "Islamic Extremism"?

Michael

"Islamic Extremism" is merely a term used by those who fear true muslims, those that are willing to follow the call of muhammad to the letter.

All it does is identify the user of the term as an enemy of true islam.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

**S.A.M.** · 10-28-09, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Michael

What is Islamic Extremism?

I was looking at a Newsweek article and it started out like this: Capitalism is the key to fighting Muslim extremists. The biggest punch to "Islamic Extremism" comes from a growing Muslim middle class.

So? What exactly is "Islamic Extremism"?

Michael

Its the idea that everyone but Muslims welcomes invasion, occupation and puppet governments. And that Muslim reactions to these phenomena are somehow unnatural and extreme.

**spidergoat** · 10-28-09, 01:58 PM

Apparently, being extreme in Islam is taking their holy book literally. ...That everyone but Muslims has made some mistake in interpreting the messengers of the being that created everything.

**786** · 10-28-09, 02:01 PM

Originally Posted by spidergoat

Apparently, being extreme in Islam is taking their holy book literally. ...That everyone but Muslims has made some mistake in interpreting the messengers of the being that created everything.

There is a difference between taking things literally and taking things literally with the context it is in....

Peace be unto you

**spidergoat** · 10-28-09, 02:05 PM

Which context is that?

**786** · 10-28-09, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by spidergoat

Which context is that?

The context in which an event occurs, or if it is simply a story then the context of the literature itself.

Richard Dawkin said "Fuck Off" -- I know what that means.

Peace be unto you

**spidergoat** · 10-28-09, 02:22 PM

I see what you mean. I do think that fundamentalists take literary context into account, but the context was a time in which extreme values prevailed. There was not the moderating influence of the enlightenment or science.

**Michael** · 10-28-09, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by spidergoat

Apparently, being extreme in Islam is taking their holy book literally. ...That everyone but Muslims has made some mistake in interpreting the messengers of the being that created everything.

I think that's called "Islamic Fundamentalist" - isn't it?

**Michael** · 10-28-09, 07:11 PM

From Wiki:

Islamic Extremism is a term used to describe the actions and beliefs of violent Islamic activists, though many mainstream Muslims would say they are not Islamic at all.[1][2] Another term for this may be "jihadist".

Its definition is debated, but it is distinct from Islamic fundamentalism and Islamism in that neither of those necessarily denote or condone violence.[3] Although in theory this represents Islamic teachings at their most fundamental and literal level, many non-extremist Muslims claim that by causing harm to innocent bystanders or other Muslims,they deny basic Islamic teachings. It is claimed that they are not really Muslims, although the boundary is hard to define.

It seems even the literature has some contention.

I'm hopeful that as we gently direct Islamic apologists to rewrite Islam for the future, this notion of innocent bystanders is reworded to mean - all of humanity. That in my mind is a serious flault in Islam. Afterall, ANYONE can be made out to be non-innocent. And it's not as if forgive and love they enemy + turn the other cheek has done a damn thing to dampen Christians "defending" themselves - just ask the Iraqis and Afghans. The argument that this is "real world" philosophy is finally being shown to be a tad bit shallow.

It's worrying that we are commonly using, hearing and reading a phrase that we don't really agree on the meaning of. Considering the wars - I think we could, and should, do much better.

Michael

I wonder what Fraggle thinks?

**Doreen** · 10-28-09, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Michael

From Wiki:

It seems even the literature has some contention.

I'm hopeful that as we gently direct Islamic apologists to rewrite Islam for the future, this notion of innocent bystanders is reworded to mean - all of humanity. That in my mind is a serious flault in Islam. Afterall, ANYONE can be made out to be non-innocent. And it's not as if forgive and love they enemy + turn the other cheek has done a damn thing to dampen Christians "defending" themselves - just ask the Iraqis and Afghans. The argument that this is "real world" philosophy is finally being shown to be a tad bit shallow.

I see you mention Christians are quite capable of setting policies where innocent bystanders are killed. But what group hasn't? Is there a belief system out there whose members do not justify the deaths of innocent civilians? Secular, religious? Quakers and other pacificists, OK. But certainly not Neo-cons, liberals, conservatives - atheist or religious. What significant group in any Western (or Eastern or Southern, etc.) nation does not allow for significant collateral casualities of innocent civilians?

And note: most of these groups are not even considered extremists.