Bong Water Ruled Illegal Drug

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Orleander, Oct 24, 2009.

  1. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    The Minnesota Supreme Court just ruled that bong water is an illegal drug.

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    Now, the case started because of a meth bust, not a pot bust, but still...
    I didn't even know you could smoke meth in a bong. I wonder if this law applies to pot as well?


    Bong Water Can Be Illegal Drug, Minnesota Court Rules


    MINNEAPOLIS — Bong water can count as a controlled substance, the Minnesota Supreme Court ruled Thursday in a decision that raises the threat of longer sentences for drug smokers who fail to dump the water out of their pipes.

    In a 4-3 decision Thursday, the state's highest court said a person can be prosecuted for a first-degree drug crime for 25 grams or more of bong water that tests positive for a controlled substance.

    The decision, which reverses two lower court rulings, came in the case of Sara Peck. Items seized during a search of her Rice County home in 2007 included a glass bong — a type of water pipe often used to smoke drugs — that contained 37 grams — about 2 1/2 tablespoons — of a liquid that tested positive for the presence of methamphetamine.

    The Supreme Court said that unambiguously counts as a drug "mixture" under the wording of state law and sent the case back to Rice County District Court for further proceedings. The decision, authored by Justice G. Barry Anderson, noted that the liquid wasn't plain clear water, but had a pink color and fruity odor, and that a narcotics officer had testified that drug users sometimes keep bong water to drink or inject later.

    The statute defines a drug "mixture" as "a preparation, compound, mixture, or substance containing a controlled substance, regardless of purity." When the language of a statute is unambiguous, the high court said, precedents prohibit courts from disregarding the letter of the law under the pretext of pursuing the letter of the law.

    In a sharply worded dissent, Justice Paul Anderson said the majority's decision "does not make sense, and borders on the absurd." He said it isn't consistent with what the Legislature intended when it wrote the state's drug laws. And he blasted Rice County authorities for charging Peck with such a serious crime.

    If bong water is considered a drug mixture, and it weighs enough to raise the crime to a first-degree drug offense, the presumed sentence for a first-time offender is seven years and two months in prison, and a felony drug offense goes on his or her record, Paul Anderson wrote.

    But if the bong water is treated as part of the drug paraphernalia, as the lower courts held, he wrote, the same defendant would face no more than a $300 fine and the petty misdemeanor conviction would not go on his or her record.

    Justices Alan Page and Helen Meyer joined in Paul Anderson's dissent.

    Attorney Bradford Delapena, who represents Peck, said he had not yet had a chance to discuss the ruling with her, but he said the dissent correctly pointed out the problems the ruling raises.

    "They're treating Ms. Peck, who had two tablespoons of bong water, as if she were a major drug wholesaler," he said.

    Delapena said Peck's case now goes back to the trial court, where he said prosecutors could use the ruling to try to extract a guilty plea to a more serious offense with a stiffer sentence than a $300 fine on a petty misdemeanor. He laughed at the suggestion that it means dope smokers should empty their bongs promptly.

    "I wouldn't presume to draw that lesson," he said. "I would just stick with the legal lessons."
     
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  3. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    Man, these people need lives. Imagine sitting there and figuring out how to argue the case that bong water should be considered an illegal drug. That's a mindless as being too stoned, only it hurts other people rather than just yourself.
     
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  5. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    so a watered down drug should never be considered a drug?
     
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  7. John99 Banned Banned

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    normally it wouldnt work that way. suupoose you have a miniscule amount of narcotic substance whacked with a major amount of inane milk sugar?

    now bear in mid yhis is not bong water per say but then they take it to the labe and make it come back. THEN they measure what came back and see if it is chargeable. simple.
     
  8. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    Since you are asking me I wonder what the

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    meant in the OP, since this implied, I thought, general agreement with my reaction.

    But perhaps you are merely curious about my reasoning rather than critical of my stance.

    Bong water is not a watered down drug. Perhaps one or two people have in desperation drunk bong water, but I'll bet they didn't get off. Users that desperate would need much higher dosage levels of the drug, and as far as I know, no one has a lab specifically designed for recycling bong water into denser levels.

    Next they'll rule that if the cops run into a house with ziplock baggies and back in the lab find particles of burnt marijuana, they can call the air a marijuana colloid.

    That it is illegal is already silly. That probably millions went into this case as it wound its way upward to the SC so that prosecutors have a slightly easier time getting personal use violators - if they are dealing it is not going to help the prosecution with that charge. So we have a few less stoners watching Matrix and eating oreo cookies for hours, while down the block 3 date rapists and one drunk driver just left the local bar.

    give me a break.
     
  9. John99 Banned Banned

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    doreen, you didnt read the op. your post is totally irrelevant.
     
  10. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    You are partially right, John. I missed that in this case it was amphetamines. I didn't know people used bongs for that. But the ruling opens the door for the idiocy I described. I dislike the war on drugs and it isn't working.

    And the hypocrisy around alcohol still stands.
     
  11. John99 Banned Banned

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    i have no idea. somehting doesnt sound right. we need more facts.
     
  12. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    The two questions that strike me

    Pretty much anything you can smoke, you can smoke with a bong. The water simply acts as a filter, and it does pretty well.

    I can imagine pot being included; to the other, I've never tried harvesting bongwater.

    The only questions I have about such a decision—at least at this time—are whether the water is viable as a drug, and whether carrier-weight laws are being applied. If the answers are no and yes respectively, there is a big, big problem.

    I mean, all in all, I think the whole bongwater question as such reflects the pettiness of the drug warriors, but come on, we've learned to expect that of them by now.

    Guv'mint declared war. Don't mean we have to go out capping cops or anything, but for fuck's sake, users need to remember that the government has declared war against us, and take a few simple precautions.
     
  13. Stryder Keeper of "good" ideas. Valued Senior Member

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    Making a case for Homoeopathy? Oops wrong thread.

    As for Bong Water being illegal?

    Well it's already known that Gunpowder residue can be tested for when someone is questioned over a shooting, or a drink driver can be asked for a urine or blood same if they won't do a breathalyser, or a DNA test can be done to make sure a baby is related to a father in a custody/support battle.

    I wouldn't suggest that you should be locked up if you have a Bong filled with water, however it can be used to gain evidence that when used in conjunction with other evidence could lead to a conviction.
     
  14. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    a superb way to off someone is to convince him to drink the leftover shisha water from a long untended narghile.* preferably one in which pure tobacco--not that honey and treacle drenched dreck that the egyptians manufacture and that the israelis are so fond of--has been smoked. the nicotine content will induce a massive, and possibly fatal, heart attack.

    narghile smokers have long maintained that the tar gets filtered out of the tobacco via the water "cleansing" process, but the world health organization has concluded otherwise (i'll look for that citation if anyone cares). nevertheless, a fair bit of active substance--in this instance, nicotine, etc.-- does indeed get left behind in the water, be it of a bong or a narghile. i reckon only the most desperate would deign to get off on this, but it's there nonetheless.


    * there are more direct and efficient means of accomplishing the same, of course.
     
  15. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    I love that sentence. I love it so much I don't want to read any more and spoil it by understanding what it means.
     
  16. Doreen Valued Senior Member

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    These are not quite parallels. The contents of the bong are the crime, not simply evidence of it. No one goes to jail for possession of gun shot residue. The fact that it is on their hands may be used as evidence of some other crime, like shooting someone, or poor hygiene in a food service worker.
     
  17. parmalee peripatetic artisan Valued Senior Member

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    well, had you bothered to read it you might have recanted your previous remark about the level of viable matter in leftover dreck--be it that of bong or narghile water (which would probably amount to roughly the same), or an opium pipe, for instance. what's leftover can and often is used (by the truly desperate); of course, in the case of the narghile, it's use would be murder (or suicide, or just plain stupidity)--but point being that it can, in other instances, be used to "get off." so it's more than just a leftover substance with insignificant trace levels of the original drug.

    but perhaps you prefer to form judgments based upon the smallest bit of information proffered, so as to maintain... well, i won't even bother finishing that.

    -------------------
    edit: i'll be generous and do a re-write, although i googled the two questionable terms and got 150,000 hits for "narghile" and over 2 million for "shisha" and your prior claims would suggest that you would know what they mean. but whatever...



    so here goes:

    a superb way to off someone is to convince him to drink the leftover shisha water--or the water through which crudely cut tobacco that is sometimes drenched in honey and treacle and is smoked through a device not unlike a bong (see below)-- from a long untended narghile, hookah, hubbly-bubbly--or you know, that thing smoked by the caterpillar in Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (i'll paste an illustration below).

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    clear enough?

    -------------------------

    back to the topic: what about cottons? can a person be charged with possession of heroin for simply holding soaked cottons if they've not got any heroin in proper form on them?
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2009
  18. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    yes, I meant no insult. :bugeye:
     
  19. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    yes, but is bong water an illegal drug? Not evidence that someone has done drugs with it, but that you are in possession of illegal drugs. :shrug:
    It just makes no sense to me. Unless.... can you put this meth bong water in a syringe and shoot up and get the same high?
     
  20. John99 Banned Banned

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    those two examples are nothing alike.
     
  21. John99 Banned Banned

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    it can be illegal. as an aside, you keep using the phrase "bong water" but that is not what thisis about. also, len bias died from drinking a liquid that contained cocaine.
     
  22. Alien Cockroach Banned Banned

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    Kids, there is a BIG difference between weed and methamphetamine. Weed is entertaining to some people, and it makes your brain stupid for a while. Some people like their brains being stupid, which is why they have to go and smoke some more weed, but the effect isn't cumulative. Methamphetamine turns you into one of those people from Dawn of the Dead. Anything you can do to keep people off of methamphetamine, do it.
     
  23. shichimenshyo Caught in the machine Registered Senior Member

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    Have either of you ever done these drugs?
     

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