Iraqi Arab Jews

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Michael, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Here was something I didn't know about. (from wiki)

    Before the anti-Jewish actions of the 1930s and 1940s, overall Iraqi Jews "viewed themselves as Arabs of the Jewish faith, rather than as a separate race or nationality". Additionally, early Labor Zionism mostly concentrated on the Jews of Europe, skipping Iraqi Jews because of their lack of interest in agriculture. The result was that "Until World War II, Zionism made little headway because few Iraqi Jews were interested in the socialist ideal of manual labor in Palestine." (Simon, Reguer, and Laskier, p 364).

    There were around 140,000 Arab Jews living in Iraq. Now there are about 3.

    Pretty interesting,
    Michael
     
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  3. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Another interesting thing is that similar to the other thread I opened, it was during times of uncertainty and insecurity that Arab Jews started thinking of themselves as Jews first and Arab second and probably Iraqi a distant third. While at the same time Arabs Muslims retreated to their religion.

    Then the violence started.

    Interesting.
     
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  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Were they more religious before or after?
     
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  7. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm thinking after - for example, the Jews initially considered themselves Arabs culturally.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So if I consider myself Indian, it makes me what?

    And if you consider yourself American, it makes you what?

    I suggest you spend some time in the Middle East so you at least know what you are talking about, instead of applying some kind of twisted meaning to any and everything.
     
  9. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    You're missing the point. They did, now they don't. Simple enough for you?
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Which ones? The ones who are in Iraq, or the ones who left 40 years ago?
     
  11. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    There's 8 Jews in iraq, down from 140,000 many IRONICALLY fleeing Arab nationalists. Israel's creation is as much the fault of intolerant Muslims as it is Europeans. As they say: You made your bed, now sleep in it.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Am I supposed to be impressed by this display of ignorance? Do you ever read any primary sources of history at all? Or just the stuff they spoonfeed you in the media?
     
  13. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    here's your favoret source:

    I know this must come as a shock to you SAM that delineating Citizenry and living in Dhimmitude could result in people saying f*ck this - I'm getting the f*ck out of here.
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    So thats a no to primary history then.

    I usually post sources that reflect what I already know from other better sources.

    If you're getting your education online at least try and be a bit more discriminating.
     
  15. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    Fell free to add something constructive to the conversation - hell, do everyone a favor and edit Wiki. It's surely be better than red herring us to death!

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    Anyway, the quote contains the citations. Look them us, they are the primary source. The one is even in quotes and includes the page number. That is professional citation.
     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah a "professional citation". And you a lecturer

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    Try this book:
     
  17. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    You're link to the hand-shake sheik was interesting, albeit, that was in 2007 with Bush. He's a twit I agree. Obama is pulling the troops out. So we can wash out hands of that mess. Win Win

    This link skips from page 27 to 89 in my copy.
    Is there some point your are trying to make? Why do YOU suppose Arab Jews left Iraq? What is your position?
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    It was a struggle between the Pan Arabists of which the Baath Party was the most dominant and had the connections [with vested interests] to hijack the political narrative and superimpose itself on the youth and intelligentsia and the Iraqi nationalists who suffered from a lack of political involvement and an inability to envision and crystalllise an Iraq that could capture the political imagination. IOW, the doers won and the thinkers were pushed aside. The Jews were just collateral damages swept aside by the Pan Arabs and their using the partition of Palestine as a tool for distracting the masses from the real issues that needed attention in Iraq.

    Thats a good book to read for the history of the Baath party and how it undermined the essentially pluralistic nature of Iraqi society. A bit verbose and pedantic but well researched and meticulous.
     
  19. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    How long had "Iraq" existed prior to the collateral damage? And. even if Jews were collateral damage, you would agree that their leaving Iraq was in part due to the way they were treated by their fellow Iraqi citizens? Doesn't this imply then that Pan Arabism helped foster insecurity on the part of Arab Jews (left out of the pan part) and their retreat towards a "Jewish" state?

    Can you see a vicious cycle developing here?
     
  20. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    When are you visiting Israel?

    :shrug:
     
  21. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    When I do my middle east tour. Hopefully in between Lebanon and Egypt.

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  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Pan Arabism was a response to Palestinian partition so its a chicken and egg question. Would it have reached the heights it did if Palestinians were not dispossessed? I think not. Note that the Zionists funded the PanArab movement to encourage aliya from these countries when they realised they could not make up the numbers with just the Europeans. They even bombed synangogues to convince the Jews they were not safe:

    http://www.inminds.co.uk/jews-of-iraq.html

    But yes, Israel essentially destroyed the Middle Eastern Jewish culture, simply by existing.
     
  23. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    Would the Palestinians have been dispossessed, if not for the constant suppression of Jewish freedoms in the Middle East?

    What was it? How can we know, when they were constantly being evicted and suppressed? Let them develop it on their own.
     

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