What is Islam?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Mrs.Lucysnow, Aug 28, 2009.

  1. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    What does it mean to its followers today?

    What do they think of their scriptures in the context of modern life and how do they conciliate the theory and practice of the Quran with modern living?

    Oh yeah only muslims should answer this as it would be interesting to know how muslims reconcile terrorism, misogyny and antiquated religious edicts with modern living.

    This of course isn't religious baiting its the new 'good faith' sciforums is passing as intellectual debate

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    You see in order to ask the question one first has to see muslims as people not some monolithic group (wink wink its an example of doublspeak).
     
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  3. MKT Registered Member

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    Please read more about islam and Mohamed Biography.
    Read Quran, and i challenge: if you can pick up a verse from Quran that incite terrorism or racism of the women.
    i want to tell u that Our prophet Mohamed said in his last word :
    ''... Be friendly with womens.... Comrade supreme,comrade supreme''
    i dont know if i translate it well but it is clear.
    And u talking about terrorism all Muslims know that ''Taliban'' and '' El-Qaida'' exaggerate in the principle of '' Jihad'', but what u think about USA or Israel.
    Advice: dont repeat words of Asaosp and monks.Try to have ur own vision.
    I let u reply then i'll show u who is Racist and terrorist.
     
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  5. Cellar_Door Whose Worth's unknown Registered Senior Member

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    ... Well I'm convinced.
     
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  7. scifes In withdrawal. Valued Senior Member

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    i'm a follower, it's a couple of instructions to follow where relavent, and do whatever i want where it says nothing about.

    for many other followers it's a word to fill in the "religion" blank when filling forms.


    ??
    i'm not sure i understand what you mean.

    i don't know, we just do it, practice our freedom of religion i guess..
    it's easily compatible, if that's what you mean.
    glad to see they have so far granted you your wish,

    my personal view, is that there are three kinds of terrorism:
    1-one which we all agree upon is bad, like people killing civilians who are residents of the same country and there's no war, like the dumbasses who call themselves muslims and blow themselvs in the middle of riyadh, whether they targeted muslim population who they call traitors or non muslims who the saudi or any other government have allowed to live in their country.

    those might start rambling about all the bad consequences we're suffering for having those non muslims in islamic countries, they might also bring up a quote by the prophet muhammed saying to keep all non muslims out of the arabian peninsula....now while both point are debatable and they could be right or wrong about them, they are a 100% wrong in the way they are dealing with it, the government have allowed them to stay there and they have signed contracts and everything, and the prophet also did say:"who killed a contractee won't sniff the smell of heaven", and "muslims abide by their treaties", and just how killing them is a back stabbing move trashing lots of islamic morals, and definitly doing more harm than good.
    blowing up yourself in the middle of a market is also terrorism..and so on.

    2-what the west calls terrorism and we (or i) don't:
    acts of war against invading troops, is not terrorism.
    freedom fighting, is not terrorism, defending a homeland, even by suicide bombing, is not terrorism.
    actually it is terrorism, it's terrorizing your enemy, which is a good thing, and the arabic translation of terrorism is actually ordered in the quran in this context, such verses are used by those who brain wash the dumbos of the first type into doing "terrorism", saying it's mentioned and ordered in the quran, so strap it up and let a rip!.
    so... no, killing american husbands and sons and brothers in afganistan and iraq is not terrorism, it's self defense.

    3-a grey area:
    which is when an invaded country which has had it's civilians terrorized, reply to the terrorizing country's civilians by peer terrorism, like 9/11.
    you have countries living life and walking their path, along comes another country and wrecks havoc and tyranny in it, why did i say i"wreck havoc and tyranny in it" instead of just "invade" it? because of the great difference in power, making it go from a typical war of invader and defender, into "wreck havoc and tyranny in it".. from tanks, soldiers and jets vs. tanks, soldiers and jets, into an army vs. civilians.. and a war against civillians is the definition of terrorism.

    so when the terrorized civilians reply by terrorizing the civilians of the original terrorizes, for me it enters the grey zone.
    what nudges it out of the grey zone into the justified white zone, is that those who are terrorizing have no other way of defending themselves, meaning it would be really grey if the two armeis were fighting, and one army trespassed by terrorizing the civilians of another, then is replying by terrorism justified? i don't know.. but in the absence of an army and fair fight and equal power and just no systematic war as we know it, the choice taken by the terrorized becomes a bit more into focus, even though i won't be so sure about it.


    -A
    the first step in discussing terrorism from islam's viewpoint is to define terrorism so we can start from shared grounds of understanding, and be sure we're talking about the same thing.

    B-
    i really like this, and i think it's got a point:

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    -C
    i've inquired about type 3 before, see http://sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=2293544#post2293544
    which, last time i checked, wasn't locked.

    that's utterly silly, women are holy in islam, well, in a manner of speaking, everything else is bullshit, propaganda, whatever you call it..

    wow, that's interesting..mmm, how about this:

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    something that even though it's coming from the past, it bears what we can't reach in the future.
    i think they're ambiguous parts of wisdom which survived the old times, kinda like how a book of quantum mechanics would be appreciated by a kid born in the second stone age of post world war three or world war four.

    also, such religious edicts may be surrounded by many different forms of disapproval, but they have never failed when followed.
    that went over my head.
    why thank you lucy.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2009
  8. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    "And monks"? Is this based on that old damning of monks by Mohammed? Funny the memes that pop up unexpectedly. And who the hell is "Asaosp" meant to be?
     
  9. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Well its glad to see that everyone understands the meaning of irony behind the post

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    The OP was nothing but a reaction to Sams which I found insulting. As a matter of fact its almost an exact copy of her thread except I changed the word judaism with islam. So if followers of the tradition were a little put off by what was written in the OP all I can say is :yay:

    I thought it was a little insulting too. I hope you all felt the EXACT same way about Sam's 'What is judaism' thread.

    If you think that Sam does not represent you and your religion as far as her 'thought' concerning others then you should say something. You should react to her from time to time otherwise it just makes the comments in this thread look a tad bit hypocritical. It would have been nice if you guys had popped into the 'what is judaism' thread and challenged her on some of these ideas. Too bad I saw no sign of that from any of you. If you bloody don't like this OP then you should have also spoken out about the other. Don't ask for respect if you cannot show respect.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009
  10. GeoffP Caput gerat lupinum Valued Senior Member

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    I challenged her, actually, on that thread. But I felt bad about contributing to another thread that would inevitably be seen as islam-bashing. Islamic belief is whatever it is; that is to say, in the mind and practice it is probably all well and good. It's when some of the intolerant passages are acted on, or accepted as a societal meme for prejudice that there's a problem. Unfortunately, and I believe largely because of the notion that islam isn't merely a religion but a "total life system" to be incorporated into social and political systems, this proves difficult to separate out.
     
  11. scifes In withdrawal. Valued Senior Member

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    ...

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    ........

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    :wtf

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    what does that thread have to do with this? who's offended? why should anyone be offended? what's all this about respect? what the hell is going on? i'll go see who sam killed in her thread and be right back...
     
  12. scifes In withdrawal. Valued Senior Member

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    2,573
    besides,
    I DIDN'T :bawl:
     
  13. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Scifes where have you been anyway?

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    Its a response to this: http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=95736

    You would have to read into it on or two pages to see why it is so offensive which was where we all knew it would go anyway. By the way it is interesting what you had to say about terrorism. I'll let you get your bearings before I respond to what you posted.
     
  14. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Scifes I recently watched this documentary, called 'Islam: What the West needs to know. The link is in the Documentary thread in free thoughts on the last page somewhere. Anyway, it tries to explain jihad and how jihad is really used by fundamentalists who are going by what was written in the Quran as a means to fight off an enemy. When you get a chance take a look at it as I would be interested in what parts you think are correct and what you find to be simple propaganda.
     
  15. scifes In withdrawal. Valued Senior Member

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    i've been on vacation.. and skinwalker is either refusing to or has forgotten to grant me my three week ban i asked for...

    as for that thread, lol, i can see you'd bite sam's head off any time of the day.

    i really don't see what's wrong with that thread, i think she saw jews contradicting their religion's teachings and wanted their take on that being done.. what's wrong with asking one of a religion about his religion?

    i think christians' trinity is,.... well it's still vague for me to judge it, so i asked in a thread.
    she thought something similar of jews and atheists jump in saying jews would be offended.."it depends on the jew", that's why she's asking THE JEW who it depends on, what does HE think.. same with me and the trinity, i can speculate and explore possible explanations to how chrisitans justify three being actually one, but it's not like a christian telling me why it is, instead of an atheist telling me why MAYBE it is.

    when you asked here about islam i didn't get offended one bit, something seems wrong about my religion to you, i feel privileged to explain it as best as i can.

    and note, sam's thread about jews can be copied to muslims;

    "why do muslims do{insert muslims' actions} even though their scriptures say{insert broken rules or ignored orders}, is there a muslim around to tell me what he thinks of it?"
    and i wouldn't mind getting in and examining what's given and reply what i think.


    it seems discussing anything but atheism here is..unpractical(?). i guess it'll always be theism against atheism..we never have enough theists to have a discussion between ourselves.
     
  16. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    Scifes: i really don't see what's wrong with that thread, i think she saw jews contradicting their religion's teachings and wanted their take on that being done.. what's wrong with asking one of a religion about his religion?

    What in the world isn't contradictory? There is a problem with priests molesting children in the catholic church and being protected by the church. We have an american democratic government supporting undemocratic systems. Contradiction is the most of all human traits and you will find it in everything. There isn't anything special about contradiction in religion. Any religion. To bring up the jews and then use the incident of the Kapos to suggest that jews somehow betray their religion because of said event is as offensive to me as suggesting that all muslims betray their religion because of the actions of terrorists.
     
  17. scifes In withdrawal. Valued Senior Member

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    i don't get it, you don't mind the thread "what is judaism"?
    my life isn't

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    but the world is, i agree, that's why i'm gonna set things straight

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    actually you can see it in a way that it isn't contradictive, the priests are defending their friend because they're all evil, they speak of religion and goodness because they want to decieve everybody, it all makes sense

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  18. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    No, I did mind the thread on judaism. I found the thread offensive.

    Scifes: ctually you can see it in a way that it isn't contradictive, the priests are defending their friend because they're all evil, they speak of religion and goodness because they want to decieve everybody, it all makes sense

    Don't start

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    I think you understand what I am saying. There is another documentary named Deliver Us From Evil that would break your heart. Its all about how the church turned a blind eye to a known pedophile and how they turned their back on the victims. It sheds a negative light on all priests but context is always important right, and the judaism thread lacked a context to discuss the issue save a segue-way to bash jews.
     
  19. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    "What does it mean to its followers today?

    What do they think of their scriptures in the context of modern life and how do they conciliate the theory and practice of the Torah with modern living?"


    Personally, I don't consider this as offensive. Simple questions which got demonised and twisted around by some just because it was coming from S.A.M. Also taking into account that those who were there complaining about it, or even criticising S.A.M.'s thread weren't even the people in question.
    Basically, because the questions were coming from S.A.M. it was offensive, right?
    It's noteworthy that similar questions are being posed in most threads concerning the Islamic faith.

    It's your prejudice against S.A.M. that turned the original thread into an offensive one.

    It might have been an interesting thread if people wouldn't have been so hostile right from the beginning, but alas we'll never find out now.
     
  20. earth Registered Senior Member

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    1,241
    Some people take exception to injustice, righteously.

    Implying most if not all Jews betray their beliefs and given the situation would send their children to a gas chamber isn't exactly asking questions about Judaism.
     
  21. PsychoTropicPuppy Bittersweet life? Valued Senior Member

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    Those comments did come after several users have attacked her/him, or showed hostility. Everything he/she said seems pretty kosher. The only thing you could reproach her/him is the slight cynicism in the word choice in some posts. It's not like he/she was spreading lies...

    And honestly, I don't think that "Some" equals with "most" or "all".
     
  22. Mrs.Lucysnow Valued Senior Member

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    I have no prejudice against Sam. I used to defend sam against all those who called her out on bad posting practices and bigotry. It took some time for me to see it myself but I have which I find ironic considering her complaints about how muslims were characterized by other members. The thread wasn't an honest attempt to understand anything about judaism on the whole and in particular did not bring up anything that couldn't have been highlighted about all religions.

    You don't have to 'lie' to be offensive about a group of people you just have to skew the issue and be subtle in your attack. Like for example you can begin like this 'why are blacks so prone to crime?' and behave innocently as you list how there are more of them in prison blah blah blah, then you can list all of the evils they use to suppress each other like 'well blacks who were the masters house servants treated the blacks in the field terribly' blah blah blah. Those last two statements are not 'lies' but they are being used outside of a wider context that would give clarity to those particular incidents and blind you to all those who do not fit that mold. Then you can top it off with questioning their morality for example. You don't have to lie, you simply have to isolate and twist the truth.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009
  23. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah, thats pretty much it. You can say anything about Muslims on this forum, but even asking questions about any other religion is not kosher.

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    Last edited: Aug 29, 2009

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