Divining rods

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by kurros, Aug 4, 2009.

  1. kurros Registered Senior Member

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    793
    Although I'm putting this in pseudoscience, I am actually looking for scientifically based speculations here.

    Anyway my question is if anybody knows anything about why divining rods seem to work, or at least how it is that people can delude themselves into thinking they work.

    I ask because of a particular experience with them I had in a little place called Coober Pedy in outback South Australia. It's an opal mining town which produces something like 70% of the worlds precious opals. The mining methods are fairly rudimentary, they basically drill lots of bore holes in the desert, looking for signs of opals, then use tunnel drilling machines to dig down to the level the opals are found at. Its pretty dangerous to go walking around the fields since there are bore holes to fall down all over the place.

    The point is that, since the early days, one of popular methods for trying to decide where to dig ones exploratory bore hole has been to walk about the place with big long brass divining rods. A lot of the miners there still think it works pretty well. Admittedly throwing ones hat in the air and digging where it lands is also a common method.

    Anyway I stayed in an underground camping ground there and went on a little tour of an old mine with the owner, who'd lived there for some time. At one stage of his tour he decided to convince us that divining rods work somehow (he had some crazy theories about auras and whatnot) and gave us some rods and tried to teach us to use them. I actually went first, and being something of a scientist I tried to hold them as loosely and flat as I could to try to minimise my influence on them. Anyway I walked along with these things and sure enough they crossed over as I passed an opal vein in the wall of the tunnel (it was just worthless non-colorful stuff, but opal just the same). I didn't know it was there either. It kind of confused me a lot and I haven't quite been able to figure out what happened, whether I just leaned in some way due to the gradient of the tunnel floor or what. This guy didn't exactly seem like he was trying to con us either, I mean he got nothing out of it.

    I don't think I believe they work but it was kind of interesting all the same. I didn't have the opportunity to perform further experiments at the time, so sadly I have only the one, statistically poor sample to go on.
     
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  3. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    Correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like you held two rods, one in each hand and concentrated on holding them level for some period of time.

    Maybe your hand and arm muscles were being used in a way that they were not accustomed too. Muscle fatigue could have caused the rods to cross.

    Do you know how many people this guy tried this with? If say one of three people had the rods cross exactly at the vein, then we have something. But if one in a hundred had them cross at the vein, while all the others either didn't cross at all or crossed at places other than the vein, then muscle fatigue or not, we have chance.
     
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  5. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I can use them and I can find water. I use two pieces of wire, like a coat hanger, and hold each seperatly in both hands. the small part, about 6 incehs in what I hold the longer poart , about 12 inches or so, I let straight in front of me . I then walk until the two wires actually cross each other, I use NO force to do this, they are just resting in my hands.
     
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  7. kurros Registered Senior Member

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    793
    Well I only held them for a minute or so and they weren't very heavy. They shouldn't really cross if they lean forward a little either, depending on how you hold them I suppose. If you tilt them back too far I guess they would cross, although they should equally often swing apart...

    There were maybe 8 people there at the time and most of them (sorry don't remember more accurately than that) had them cross at more or less the right place. They saw me do it first though so it is hard to know if that influenced them at all. 8 is still statistically not that good though. I think the ones that didn't cross in the right place didn't cross at all.

    The only solution is to go back and try it some more I think

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  8. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    There is a sciency word for it, but basically your own thoughts and wishes influence your body movements. No rigorous experiments have confirmed the accuracy of anecdotal accounts. But even scientists who try it call it spooky.
     
  9. quantum_wave Contemplating the "as yet" unknown Valued Senior Member

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    I suppose. One last thought. How many veins were there along the trail and how do you know there was really a vein there?
     
  10. stereologist Escapee from Dr Moreau Registered Senior Member

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    There is a dowsing meeting held in Vermont each year - or at least there used to be. A friend of mine decided to use the services of a dowser to place a new well for his house. This was new construction.

    Any place you drill in Vermont you hit water. The question is how deep do you have to go. My friend now has the please of owning the deepest well drilled within at least 20 miles of his house. It was by far the deepest well the contractor had ever drilled.

    I love this paragraph from:

    http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1984-01-01/Dowsing-Fact-or-Fancy.aspx

    Check out the following link where controlled experiments have been performed.
    http://www.skepdic.com/dowsing.html

    As quantum wave points out, your surprise is related to you being told that you actually found something.
     
  11. common_sense_seeker Bicho Voador & Bicho Sugador Valued Senior Member

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    I reckon that it's your body that is the antenna and reacting to the detection of running water. The ability would have been useful during the long process of evolution since the time we were merely fish!
     
  12. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Here's a good scientific debunking of dowsing, including experiments conducted with the participation of sworn advocates of the practice who claim they've seen it work miracles. James Randi at his finest.
     
  13. krokah Registered Senior Member

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    I have dowsed for years and worked years ago to locate sites on property for drilling. My success rate was around 90%, I think it was much higher that that. One of the native americans told me that water throw a shadow on the crust of the earth. Our bodies tune into these shadows. All I know is that it actually works. Water departments throughout the United States have used dowsing to locate water pipes that are not marked on city streets. Those of you who are interested can contact their water departments for confirmation. Check it out.
     
  14. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Just wanted to point out, this is pretty much the same sort of claim all the dowsers in the James Randi vid make as well. They all swear by it, but watch the results when they try a real, fair test.
     
  15. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, I had to hang up the phone because the person at the water department dropped it in hysterical laughter and couldn't stop laughing.
     
  16. stereologist Escapee from Dr Moreau Registered Senior Member

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    My friend was happy with the dowsing results of the record well in the area. So much extra money.
     
  17. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    6,460
    Next time he wants to drill a well, you should offer to pick the site. Maybe throw a squirrel into the field, and wherever it runs to in the next 10 seconds will be the spot to dig. Also you should congratulate your friend on the careful placement of his well to maximize its effectiveness, aesthetic beauty relative to the specific surrounding scenery, and the optimized convenience of access from the rest of the property.
     
  18. stereologist Escapee from Dr Moreau Registered Senior Member

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    685
    Dowsing seems to be like playing cow pie bingo. It's all a crap shoot.
     
  19. krokah Registered Senior Member

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    Try calling the supervisor at the water and sewer division in Lewisville Texas, if you need the number I will give it to you, his name is Maurice Strickland, have talked to him several times. I have seen people use dowsing here in California as well. When you talk to him let me know what he says...
     
  20. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Well if it's being done in Lewisville, Texas, surely it will become all the rage in less enlightened cities like Paris and Berlin. All just a matter of time!
     
  21. CptBork Valued Senior Member

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    Oh yeah and yes please, let's have Mr. Strickland's number. I'm sure there are several taxpayer foundations who would be very interested in knowing how their hard-earned dollars are being wasted. Will be a shock to them indeed when they find out it's dowsers, not communists, that are sucking up all the money.
     
  22. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, please do give me his number. I will call him immediately.
     
  23. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

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