Do you support the DREAM act?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Saven, Jul 4, 2009.

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  1. Saven Registered Member

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    Briefly, it is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dream_Act

    I have my own opinion on putting children of illegal immigrants before legal immigrants in the endless line for green cards, and about crowding our already overcrowded schools with illegal kids and potentially denying spots to legal kids (can you guess what my opinion is yet?) but I would still like to see what everyone else has to say.

    The DREAM act has been killed twice so far over the past few years, but it may come up again this year and a lot of people believe it may pass.
     
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  3. Cellar_Door Whose Worth's unknown Registered Senior Member

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    I think that would open up a BIG loophole, but I can see their line of thinking.
     
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  5. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I don't have a problem with it. They are achieving students who will be an asset to the country.
     
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  7. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Any time you suppress the rights of the law abiding citizens with ways to abridge their status you are going against the Constitutions way of reasoning and that's just plain WRONG. No one should be able to get ahead of any law biding immigrant anytime, anywhere in America.
     
  8. tuberculatious Banned Banned

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    what about countries in america outside the USA. Would that be ok?
     
  9. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I do not understand your question.
     
  10. tuberculatious Banned Banned

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    consider is non-existent then.
     
  11. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    I'd like to respond to your question if I only understood it better, sorry.
     
  12. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    I don't get what's so bad about it. Kids who were forced to move here, complete the American School system, and attend college here. They still have to pay the same penalty adults do, even though they didn't choose to come here. I don't believe in "sins of the father". They're going to stay here anyway and drain on the system, might as well make them a part of it and make them pay their dues as well. They can put their college education to good use or serve in the US military. Most likely their children and spouse will be American citizens anyway. And if they are paying their taxes, then I don't really have anything to complain about.
     
  13. Saven Registered Member

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    Well let's see...

    Immigrating to the USA is very hard now and the list is endless. Legal immigrants have to wait many years to immigrate here, if they ever are allowed at all. If the people legally applying can't get legal status... then why should *illegal* children of illegal immigrants? It is true that it is not the kids' fault for coming here at age 5 or whatever, but when these kids turned 18, they knew that they were overstaying and that they faced deportation. That is why illegal immigration becomes a crime for them only after they turn 18, in the eyes of the law. If they don't leave after turning 18, they face a 10 year ban. We would essentially be putting lawbreakers at the head of the line for green cards, before legal applicants. That doesn't seem ridiculous or unfair to you?

    You must think about this from the perspective other than the beneficiaries of the act. Legal immigrants and their kids have to defer gratification before doing the things the illegals will be allowed to through such an act. If anybody should be allowed to be schooled here, shouldn't they be? After all, they are the legal ones? Don't their hopes and dreams count too, if not more? Those legal kids want to go to school here too, or maybe join our military... but we'd tell them to wait while we get our illegal children of illegals through first, just because "they were already here illegally?" That makes no sense and if anything that should be counted against you. It's a huge insult to every legal immigrant and their kids... and it would simply make immigrating here illegally more attractive than immigrating here legally!

    By the way, state schools are crowded and room is limited. It would be morally wrong to potentially aust a legal citizen whose parents have been paying taxes their whole lives, for an illegal alien student who already got a free ride from K to 12.

    You are acting like the kids of illegals don't have a choice and and that being "illegal" is a punishment. But the USA didn't do this to them: their parents did. And they do have a choice: to go to their country of origin, where they are citizens.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2009
  14. Ophiolite Valued Senior Member

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    America is a continent. (Or two continents if you prefer.)
    America contains many countries.
    Perhaps you meant the United States.
    Would that be Los Estados Unidos de Mexico?

    In short tuberculatious's question was designed, I believe, to highlight the self centred arrogance that bedevils the USA and helps to create her global unpopularity. The question and your predictable response also gave all us non-USA types a good laugh.
     
  15. tuberculatious Banned Banned

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    I reject the notion that I designed a question and I prefer the hypothesis that it was spontaneously generated.
     
  16. CutsieMarie89 Zen Registered Senior Member

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    I still don't get what that has to do with anything. They are already here, already got a free ride and obviously have no intention to leave, unless they plan to run away from home on the eve of their 18th birthday. So instead of the government doing the excellent job it's already doing, preventing illegal immigrants from living in the country, it saves more tax payer money for these people to become citizens and pay taxes too. It gives them an outlet to do so without the criminal record. Since America obviusly has a high demand for illegal immigrant workers, we might need to meet in the middle some where, stop treating just the symptoms and not the cause.
     
  17. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    It's better than than leaving them in limbo being a drain.
     
  18. Saven Registered Member

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    If you can't get how it's related, then you probably don't "get" much about this debate at all cutsie. Putting actual legal immigrant applicants and their kids in the back of the line for the endless list for green cards, in favor of illegal kids who shouldn't even have come over here is messed up. If you were a legal applicant waiting for five years to get into this country and saw all these illegal immigrants getting free permanent residence just because they want to go to school and "were already an illegal drain anyway" you would probably be outraged -- and rightly so. The illegals are getting rewarded with the reward that the LEGALS rightly deserve, just because they are good-for-nothing drains who refuse to go home. Maybe you don't quite understand how expensive, lengthy, and difficult the process to obtain a green card is these days. It's practically impossible if you don't have a blood relative or a company sponsor. That's why this is such a slap in the face to legal immigrants.

    America does not have a high demand for illegal immigrant workers cutsie. Rather, illegal immigrant workers have a high demand for American labor. Don't get the two confused. The state I am living in now has almost ZERO illegal immigrants... and our economy is doing just fine. You need to try and free yourself from the "we need illegals to be our janitors" mentality. All the janitors in my town are white; they aren't mexicans.

    There are legal applicants and their kids who can make up for the "drain" that the illegal kids have been their whole lives. There is limited room in this country and we can't house everyone in the world who wants to be here. That is why legals should ALWAYS come first. If you tell people that you can come illegally and still get citizenship, just because "you were already here illegally anyway for a long time" then why even call it illegal?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2009
  19. Saven Registered Member

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    There will be more drains here if anything like the DREAM act ever passes, pjdude. It doesn't solve the root problem. The act requires that you be here for 5 years before the DREAM act is enacted, in order to benefit. The kids of illegal immigrants who come afterward, being ineligible for the DREAM act, will be stuck in the same exact situation. This is trying to cure a symptom, not a cause. Unforunately that symptom will return -- in greater magnitude than ever before.
     
  20. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    yeah because its so much better to have them uneducated and not paying taxes.
     
  21. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    I guess in your world it would be better for these people to starve or what not than come here illegally.
     
  22. superstring01 Moderator

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    Did he say he'd rather they starve?

    It is possible to be of good moral character and not want illegal immigrants to swamp the USA. People starve all over the earth. Bad stuff happens. You can only do so much good (i.e. as much as you can without causing you to harm yourself), then tune the rest out.

    ~String
     
  23. Saven Registered Member

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    Some of them do pay taxes using an ITIN (look it up).

    Yes, they are uneducated. That is their fault for overstaying in a country they know is not theirs. But we have our own citizens who are struggling to pay for college and get into the crowded state schools they want. They > illegal kids.
     
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