Can a Religion Be Banned?

**Michael** · 05-28-09, 11:41 PM

Church of Scientology on Trial in France: Can a Religion Be Banned?

I wonder, do people think that it should be legal to ban a particular faith? I mean, if people are stupid enough to worship Xenu why not let them be fleeced?

China bans Falun Gong and Indonesia bans that heretical Muslim sect Ahmadiyya - I'm pretty sure there aren't too many Synagogues and Hindu temples in KSA, the USA all but banned the LDS polygamy cult - - but we're talking about France! The West.

I thought we were open and free?

Freedom fries and all that....

So, Sciforum members do you think it should be legal to ban a Religion?

**James R** · 05-28-09, 11:44 PM

Banning them is one thing. Offering them tax breaks and so on just because they call themselves a religion is a different matter.

**baftan** · 05-28-09, 11:50 PM

Banning something is the easy escape way, and probably shows the incapacity of the authority or regime against the effects of the banned object (religion or other). When system develop more efficient tools, or immunation against the effects the quarantine (ban) can be lifted.
Banning also harms the actual people and their lives, rather than the idea or belief itself. Idea itself however, becomes more attractive than it was before the ban. Because "I am banning this" is actually the other way of saying this: "I accept your power and influence, I have no capacity to deal with you now".

**wynn** · 05-29-09, 01:10 AM

Originally Posted by Michael

Church of Scientology on Trial in France: Can a Religion Be Banned?

I wonder, do people think that it should be legal to ban a particular faith? I mean, if people are stupid enough to worship Xenu why not let them be fleeced?

China bans Falun Gong and Indonesia bans that heretical Muslim sect Ahmadiyya - I'm pretty sure there aren't too many Synagogues and Hindu temples in KSA, the USA all but banned the LDS polygamy cult - - but we're talking about France! The West.

I thought we were open and free?

Freedom fries and all that....

So, Sciforum members do you think it should be legal to ban a Religion?

Michael, you are so going to be reincranted as the next child of Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes! You needs to learn you some manners.

**Oli** · 05-29-09, 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by Michael

I wonder, do people think that it should be legal to ban a particular faith? I mean, if people are stupid enough to worship Xenu why not let them be fleeced?

If people are stupid enough to own goods why not let them get stolen?
Burglary should be legal?
Fraud should be legal?

So, Sciforum members do you think it should be legal to ban a Religion?

Except that it isn't (ostensibly) a religion being banned:

When investigating magistrate Jean-Christophe Hullin filed the findings of a nine-year inquiry with prosecutors, he described Scientology as "first and foremost a commercial business" whose interactions with followers are defined by "a real obsession for financial remuneration."

**StrangerInAStrangeLa** · 05-29-09, 03:23 AM

Con artists are legally banned. People who snow others into giving them money. Except for priests, preachers & most other religious con artists. Why are they allowed to convince people to give them money without giving anything substantial in return while others, from medicine to auto mechanics are shut down & prosecuted???

**S.A.M.** · 05-29-09, 03:25 AM

In atheist states, religion is always banned. Nothing new here.

State atheism is the official rejection of religion in all forms by a government in favor of atheism. As a strict rule, only Marxist governments have ever sought to promote atheism as a public norm, and as a rule in accordance with the doctrine of dialectical materialism.[1] State atheism has been implemented in communist countries, such as the former Soviet Union,[2] China, Communist Albania, Communist Afghanistan, North Korea and Communist Mongolia under communist rule also promoted state atheism and attempted to suppress religion.[3][4] State atheism in these countries may include active opposition to religion, and persecution of religious institutions, leaders and believers. The Soviet Union had a long history of state atheism,[5] in which social success largely required individuals to proclaim atheism and stay away from churches; this attitude was especially militant under Stalin.[6][7][8] The Soviet Union attempted to impose atheism over wide areas of its influence, including places like central Asia.[9] The Socialist People's Republic of Albania under Enver Hoxha went so far as to officially ban the practice of every religion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism

**StrangerInAStrangeLa** · 05-29-09, 03:26 AM

Originally Posted by Oli

Except that it isn't (ostensibly) a religion being banned:
“
When investigating magistrate Jean-Christophe Hullin filed the findings of a nine-year inquiry with prosecutors, he described Scientology as "first and foremost a commercial business" whose interactions with followers are defined by "a real obsession for financial remuneration."
”

What religion doesn't fit that?

**MRC_Hans** · 05-29-09, 03:51 AM

In a free community, a religion cannot be banned per se, but if the rites of a religion violate the laws of the community, the practicing of a religion can be forbidden.

Hans

**S.A.M.** · 05-29-09, 04:03 AM

So if a free community was theistic and decided the practise of atheism was illegal, it could be banned?

**cosmictraveler** · 05-29-09, 05:02 AM

If they make it illegal then all of the members will do is practice it anyway without the permission of the state.

**StrangerInAStrangeLa** · 05-29-09, 06:05 AM

There is no practice of atheism.

**wsionynw** · 05-29-09, 07:15 AM

I don't think you can or should try to ban a religion. It would be like trying to ban people from using their imaginations.

Anyway the story here is that people are being convinced into handing over cash and getting little or nothing in return, something mostly unique to Scientology it seems. You can certainly ban elements of religious practice if they are deemed harmful to society (such as self harm, sacrificing animals, etc).

Scientology seems like one big pyramid scheme to me, the guys at the top get very rich and everyone below gets fleeced. I trust Tom Cruise is making some serious dollar from his involvement.

**wynn** · 05-29-09, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by S.A.M.

In atheist states, religion is always banned. Nothing new here.

But atheism is a religion!

**S.A.M.** · 05-29-09, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by wsionynw

I don't think you can or should try to ban a religion. It would be like trying to ban people from using their imaginations.

Anyway the story here is that people are being convinced into handing over cash and getting little or nothing in return, something mostly unique to Scientology it seems. You can certainly ban elements of religious practice if they are deemed harmful to society (such as self harm, sacrificing animals, etc).

Scientology seems like one big pyramid scheme to me, the guys at the top get very rich and everyone below gets fleeced. I trust Tom Cruise is making some serious dollar from his involvement.

Everyone has their favorite donation center. People can get rich milking anyone out of cash for supporting what they believe in.

http://richarddawkins.net/store/

http://richarddawkinsfoundation.org/...tion,donations

http://outcampaign.org/

http://firstchurchofatheism.com/

http://www.camp-quest.org/

http://www.atheistrev.com/2007/11/at...ay-school.html

**leopold** · 05-29-09, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa

There is no practice of atheism.

the law of biogenesis disagrees.

**Tiassa** · 05-29-09, 03:01 PM

In related news, Wikipedia has banned the Church of Scientology.

Well, not really. What they have done is voted to ban CoS agents from editing articles related to Scientology.

In an unprecedented effort to crack down on self-serving edits, the Wikipedia supreme court has banned contributions from all IP addresses owned or operated by the Church of Scientology and its associates.

Closing out the longest-running court case in Wikiland history, the site’s Arbitration Committee voted 10 to 0 (with one abstention) in favor of the move, which takes effect immediately.

(Metz)

______________________

Notes:

Metz, Cade. "Wikipedia bans Church of Scientology". The Register. May 29, 2009. TheRegister.co.uk. Accessed May 29, 2009. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05...s_scientology/

**glaucon** · 05-29-09, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa

There is no practice of atheism.

Too true.

Then again..... there is Rationality...

hmmmm

:-)

**iceaura** · 05-29-09, 04:52 PM

Originally Posted by SAM

In atheist states, religion is always banned. Nothing new here.

France is an atheist state?

The line between organized crime or confidence scams and religion is hard to draw - it's a legal grey area, and whether Scientology falls on one side or the other seems reasonably left to whatever authorities take an interest in a given situation.

**Tiassa** · 05-29-09, 05:22 PM

I think we need to consider the use of the word "banned". I sincerely doubt France will be hunting down and punishing the average citizen who also happens to subscribe to Scientology. We're not looking at a societal purge here. However, the question of whether the Church of Scientology, Inc., is allowed to call itself a religion and expect the concomitant privileges and protections is both more valid and more relevant. Indeed, that seems to be the central issue.