05-02-09, 08:41 PM #21
I grew up poor, with a single parent, and I still went to college. A lot of Americans born into far better situations than mine choose not to go to college, or they drop out of college. And yes there are many options, they can enlist and the government helps to a certain degree but the problem is that on top of not wanting to get educated, most Americans appear to be cowards as well. This combination does not help America become #1 again.
The military can make us #1 again but then we need to bring back the draft and actually WIN the wars we start. The economy can make us #1 again but we'd have to actually make getting a masters degree and or phd far more common.
05-02-09, 09:17 PM #22
The trouble is USA lacks class, places worth living with style are Italy, Poland, Japan, etc. not here
05-02-09, 09:33 PM #23
Timetraveler:Most Americans just don't have the drive to do what needs to be done for America to become #1 again.
I absolutely agree with this but would go further. I would say that Americans no longer know what it means to be an American, they have lost touch with the basic values that built the nation and no longer know what a huge responsibility is placed on a member of a free democratic society. They have fallen to apathy
05-02-09, 09:37 PM #24
Land of the free, home of the beautiful. It's just a nice place to be. Most other countries are anti american because they dislike having the ability to pick a state, and choose choices. I don't like that aspect of the USA but I do like how people who don't know jack about it criticize it to death.
05-02-09, 09:46 PM #25
Well if I understood what you were saying I'd probably disagree with you.
05-02-09, 09:58 PM #26
05-02-09, 10:11 PM #27
05-02-09, 10:35 PM #28
The USA is not #1 at childhood education. The USA is ranked 18th in the world. South Korea is ranked #1, a place where 93% of students graduate highschool. While in the USA only 75% of people graduate highschool. If education truly is the key to utility, 25% of Americans are dropping out and making themselves useless to society. Yes these people can and probably will get GED's, but the point is if they were raised in Korea they would not need a GED, they'd have a highschool diploma in the first place.
The US government including the dept of education, as well as the majority of the US population embrace mediocrity and have no plan or will to compete with Asia, or Europe.
As a result the US government has no plan to increase US academic competitiveness.
It appears that the government does not care about Americas children.
In many cases, parents also do not care about their children and would probably sell their children if they could. We have parents who basically raise their children to fail, and a government which doesn't give them any reason not to.
The USA is not #1 in adult education. The USA is ranked 14th in college graduation rates. So not only are we setting up Americas children to fail, we don't have a plan to increase adulthood competitiveness either. We accept and even embrace mediocrity, while at the same time expecting the USA to be the world leader on issues such as climate change. If we aren't the most educated nation, why should anybody take us seriously on any of these issues that we claim to want to solve? We aren't a nation of experts, we are a nation of novices, amateurs, fast food employees and immigrant labor.
The USA is not #1 in law and justice. The USA is however ranked #1 in suspected drug criminals
The USA is also ranked #1 in prison population. This means that if you are uneducated, and you are an American, you can look forward to going to prison.
It may not happen today, it may not happen tomorrow, but it's almost certainly going to happen when you have millions of prisoners, and many new prisons being built. Why are you almost certain to go to prison? The USA ranks #1 in prosecutions .http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-a...e-Systems.html
I'm not going to go into more details about how the USA ranks. I think we all get the picture that the USA isn't #1 at anything which benefits US children. So the question to ask is, why have children if you are an American? Is it truly in your best interest? The national debt continues to increase, the laws continue to become tougher, the prosecution continue to increase and prisons constantly being built to replace the crumbling schools. These American children are being set up to become service employees in a service economy, this means they will be bartenders, waitresses, waiters, taxi drivers,chefs, and thats if they are lucky. If they are unlucky they'll be taking orders at Mc Donalds, or Dunkin Donuts, or Starbucks, and they will do this for the rest of their natural lives. There will be no money for social security so they wont be retiring anytime soon. Prisons will be filled with the mentally ill, the homeless, and retirees who couldn't take the stress of their job and decided to shoot up the place or do something dumb.
America is not a place to raise children. If you disagree, I welcome you to make a case proving me wrong.
05-02-09, 11:22 PM #29
If what you say were true, explain why the middle class Americans who don't go to inner city schools, and even upper class Americans who go to the best highschools, do so poorly in math and science? Are you saying South Korea doesn't have ghettos? Are you saying theres no inner city in Europe?
It's always easier to find a scapegoat and make excuses for yourself than to change.
05-02-09, 11:33 PM #30
Although I am very much against much of what the US gov't is doing at the moment, it is still the best option available, unfortunately.
Test scores are not necessarily an indicator of intelligence.
I don't necessarily disagree, however the US population is certainly better, in my opinion, than the socialist scum of Europe that seems to be the majority.
The gov't does not belong in schooling in the first place.
That's correct. And furthermore it isn't the governments job to do anything in this field. When they do get involved, it becomes a horribly inefficient bureacracy and nothing more than indoctrination.
Through welfare, you're right.
Privatizing education is the way to go, to increase competitiveness and quality. And here's the deal: this means school is no longer compulsary. The demand for skilled labor will still stay the same, and then the people will voluntarily choose to go and want to get into good schools
Drugs should not be illegal in the first place, and criminalizing them leads to many problems and social issues.
Most of the people in prison do not deserve to be in there.
I agree that there needs to be reform.
Reduce gov't and let the people freely interact.
Eliminate the welfare state and we'll have progress.
05-02-09, 11:50 PM #31
Actually, the surveys do in fact suggest they are better.
The league, which Shanghai’s academics admit is biased towards science-based universities, measures them on academic research, including the numbers of staff or alumni who have won Nobel prizes and Fields medals in maths; highly acclaimed researchers; and articles published in magazines such as Nature and Science. American universities dominate the table with the two top British universities among them
All of the schools mentioned offer academic scholarships and grants. Harvard is very difficult to obtain admissions but the other schools have many students that are not from elite families. Educational opportunities are availiable to all social classes in America, though honestly, many students seem uninterested and do poorly.
Top 10 Universities Worldwide
1. Harvard, US
2. Stanford, US
3. Cambridge UK England
4. University of California, Berkeley, US
5. Massachusetts Inst Tech, US
6. California Inst Tech, US
7. Princeton, US
8. Oxford UK England
9. Columbia, US
10. Chicago, US
05-03-09, 12:04 AM #32
05-03-09, 12:11 AM #33
05-03-09, 08:42 AM #34
So many ignorants on this thread, you don't deserve the right to talk about education!!!
1. The finishing % in HS doesn't say anything about the education level of the school system. On average an American kid is at least 1 year BEHIND in knowledge compared to a same age European schoolkid.
2. You guys talk of HSs, then bring up top notch colleges. First, it is apples and oranges because different level of education, second, just because America has the top notch universities, the average level of education still can be very low.
3. As an answer to the OP, true, unless it is a private school, the AVERAGE American school is not a place to raise your kid, if you have the choice to pick....
05-03-09, 09:33 AM #35
05-03-09, 12:33 PM #36
I thought it was interesting that South Korea had the highest graduation percentage. I recently saw a documentary on the BBC about South Korea's "lost generation." Apparently South Korea's government wanted to update its country and now South Korea is the most technological country in the world. There's a whole generation of kids that do little more than play video games on the computer and console. South Korea was the first country to recognize gaming addiction as a psychological illness. They're now rethinking their approach to education and tech-ization and considering giving up on this lost generation and starting anew.
It's clearly not all about graduation percentage.
05-03-09, 01:06 PM #37
05-03-09, 01:17 PM #38
Our society loves to do surveys and compile data. There are many schools in America that are under-funded that still manage to graduate students that go onto the next level. There are also well-funded schools that have students that play World of Warcraft a bit too much and think it's cool to be disruptive in class.
Every student in America has the opportunity to obtain a quality education. Some do, some don't, it's really that simple. There are literally thousands of colleges spread across America offering scholarships, aid and student loans. It's lame to blame the teachers and schools for a student's failure to obtain an education in a country that has free libraries.
Some students have an economical edge, but there are far too many examples of underprivileged children excelling in life to ignore the obvious. A quality education starts at home.
05-03-09, 01:31 PM #39
05-03-09, 01:56 PM #40
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