Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 109

Thread: The USA is no place to raise a child.

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    Since I am forever whining about US policy, let me insert here what they are doing right.

    1. The Americans recognise that their education system is crappy. So they import their brains.

    2. They also recognise that most Americans don't want to do laborious work [like fruit picking]. So they allow illegal immigrants to come and do it.

    Basically, if you're American you find someone else to do your physical and mental labour for you.

    This is very good for all the brains and fruit pickers.
    Only most Americans aren't brains or fruitpickers. Most Americans just don't have the drive to do what needs to be done for America to become #1 again.
    I grew up poor, with a single parent, and I still went to college. A lot of Americans born into far better situations than mine choose not to go to college, or they drop out of college. And yes there are many options, they can enlist and the government helps to a certain degree but the problem is that on top of not wanting to get educated, most Americans appear to be cowards as well. This combination does not help America become #1 again.


    The military can make us #1 again but then we need to bring back the draft and actually WIN the wars we start. The economy can make us #1 again but we'd have to actually make getting a masters degree and or phd far more common.

  2. #22
    The trouble is USA lacks class, places worth living with style are Italy, Poland, Japan, etc. not here

  3. #23
    Valued Senior Member Mrs.Lucysnow's Avatar
    Posts
    9,615
    Timetraveler:Most Americans just don't have the drive to do what needs to be done for America to become #1 again.

    I absolutely agree with this but would go further. I would say that Americans no longer know what it means to be an American, they have lost touch with the basic values that built the nation and no longer know what a huge responsibility is placed on a member of a free democratic society. They have fallen to apathy

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucysnow View Post
    Timetraveler:Most Americans just don't have the drive to do what needs to be done for America to become #1 again.

    I absolutely agree with this but would go further. I would say that Americans no longer know what it means to be an American, they have lost touch with the basic values that built the nation and no longer know what a huge responsibility is placed on a member of a free democratic society. They have fallen to apathy
    The usa supports itself. There's tons of people out there who respect it as a group of states and a free country where politics and organization and crime are being discussed all the time. It may seem like a foolish country but it is actually beaming with potential.

    Land of the free, home of the beautiful. It's just a nice place to be. Most other countries are anti american because they dislike having the ability to pick a state, and choose choices. I don't like that aspect of the USA but I do like how people who don't know jack about it criticize it to death.

  5. #25
    Valued Senior Member Mrs.Lucysnow's Avatar
    Posts
    9,615
    Well if I understood what you were saying I'd probably disagree with you.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucysnow View Post
    Well if I understood what you were saying I'd probably disagree with you.
    Anywhere to live is fine but you must understand why.

  7. #27
    Mourning in America madanthonywayne's Avatar
    Posts
    12,399
    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTraveler View Post
    Those schools aren't "better" schools. They are the more elite expensive schools and thats about it. The students dont learn more in those schools, the classes aren't smaller, the programs aren't better, the teachers and professors aren't better. What you are saying is "if you are born with the last name Bush or come from one of the elite families, the USA is a great country for your children."

    Yeah if you are born rich, I agree the USA is a great place for rich children, but I use averages because we aren't comparing the US aristocracy to the aristocracy of France and England, we are comparing countries and all our citizens count.
    So long as you stay out inner cities, our schools are fine. The school my oldest son just graduated from has a 95% graduation rate and over 90% of its students pass the standardized state test, and it's a public school. The private school my younger children are now attending has a 99% graduation rate and about 99% of its students pass the state test.

  8. #28
    Salam Shalom Salom
    Posts
    11,529
    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTraveler View Post
    If you have to weigh the costs against the benefit, why would anyone choose to raise a child in the USA?
    Although I am very much against much of what the US gov't is doing at the moment, it is still the best option available, unfortunately.

    The USA is not #1 at childhood education. The USA is ranked 18th in the world. South Korea is ranked #1, a place where 93% of students graduate highschool. While in the USA only 75% of people graduate highschool. If education truly is the key to utility, 25% of Americans are dropping out and making themselves useless to society. Yes these people can and probably will get GED's, but the point is if they were raised in Korea they would not need a GED, they'd have a highschool diploma in the first place.
    Test scores are not necessarily an indicator of intelligence.

    The US government including the dept of education, as well as the majority of the US population embrace mediocrity and have no plan or will to compete with Asia, or Europe.
    I don't necessarily disagree, however the US population is certainly better, in my opinion, than the socialist scum of Europe that seems to be the majority.

    As a result the US government has no plan to increase US academic competitiveness.
    The gov't does not belong in schooling in the first place.

    It appears that the government does not care about Americas children.
    That's correct. And furthermore it isn't the governments job to do anything in this field. When they do get involved, it becomes a horribly inefficient bureacracy and nothing more than indoctrination.

    In many cases, parents also do not care about their children and would probably sell their children if they could. We have parents who basically raise their children to fail, and a government which doesn't give them any reason not to.
    Through welfare, you're right.

    The USA is not #1 in adult education. The USA is ranked 14th in college graduation rates. So not only are we setting up Americas children to fail, we don't have a plan to increase adulthood competitiveness either. We accept and even embrace mediocrity, while at the same time expecting the USA to be the world leader on issues such as climate change. If we aren't the most educated nation, why should anybody take us seriously on any of these issues that we claim to want to solve? We aren't a nation of experts, we are a nation of novices, amateurs, fast food employees and immigrant labor.
    Privatizing education is the way to go, to increase competitiveness and quality. And here's the deal: this means school is no longer compulsary. The demand for skilled labor will still stay the same, and then the people will voluntarily choose to go and want to get into good schools

    The USA is not #1 in law and justice. The USA is however ranked #1 in suspected drug criminals
    Drugs should not be illegal in the first place, and criminalizing them leads to many problems and social issues.

    The USA is also ranked #1 in prison population. This means that if you are uneducated, and you are an American, you can look forward to going to prison.
    Most of the people in prison do not deserve to be in there.

    It may not happen today, it may not happen tomorrow, but it's almost certainly going to happen when you have millions of prisoners, and many new prisons being built. Why are you almost certain to go to prison? The USA ranks #1 in prosecutions .http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-a...e-Systems.html
    I agree that there needs to be reform.

    I'm not going to go into more details about how the USA ranks. I think we all get the picture that the USA isn't #1 at anything which benefits US children. So the question to ask is, why have children if you are an American? Is it truly in your best interest? The national debt continues to increase, the laws continue to become tougher, the prosecution continue to increase and prisons constantly being built to replace the crumbling schools. These American children are being set up to become service employees in a service economy, this means they will be bartenders, waitresses, waiters, taxi drivers,chefs, and thats if they are lucky. If they are unlucky they'll be taking orders at Mc Donalds, or Dunkin Donuts, or Starbucks, and they will do this for the rest of their natural lives. There will be no money for social security so they wont be retiring anytime soon. Prisons will be filled with the mentally ill, the homeless, and retirees who couldn't take the stress of their job and decided to shoot up the place or do something dumb.
    Reduce gov't and let the people freely interact.

    America is not a place to raise children. If you disagree, I welcome you to make a case proving me wrong.
    Eliminate the welfare state and we'll have progress.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by madanthonywayne View Post
    So long as you stay out inner cities, our schools are fine. The school my oldest son just graduated from has a 95% graduation rate and over 90% of its students pass the standardized state test, and it's a public school. The private school my younger children are now attending has a 99% graduation rate and about 99% of its students pass the state test.
    Go ahead, blame the blacks and jews, just like the Germans did. Most of the people who are uneducated are white, and most of the schools in the USA aren't "inner city" schools. Face it, most of the schools suck whether they are inner city or rural. In fact the farmboy who lives in the rural neighborhood has problems of his own, he might not be able to access high speed internet, because we aren't #1 in that either.

    If what you say were true, explain why the middle class Americans who don't go to inner city schools, and even upper class Americans who go to the best highschools, do so poorly in math and science? Are you saying South Korea doesn't have ghettos? Are you saying theres no inner city in Europe?

    It's always easier to find a scapegoat and make excuses for yourself than to change.

  10. #30
    Although I am very much against much of what the US gov't is doing at the moment, it is still the best option available, unfortunately.
    Ok we agree. There is a problem.


    Test scores are not necessarily an indicator of intelligence.
    I never said test scores have anything to do with intelligence. This is why I compared graduation rates, not test scores. We graduate less students, and have less college graduates. Actually our grading system is harder and less forgiving than the European grading system.

    I don't necessarily disagree, however the US population is certainly better, in my opinion, than the socialist scum of Europe that seems to be the majority.
    Whats better about us? I don't think we are innately better simply because we come from American genetic stock. Thats borderline...
    The gov't does not belong in schooling in the first place.
    Thats fine, but can the government fund non profits and give vouchers? I'm not an advocate of government controlled education or standardized testing. I'd be fine with the church, or non profits paying for education. I do not want corporations paying for education however because this will allow people to simply pay for good grades and it will allow the rich and stupid to get a free pass.

    That's correct. And furthermore it isn't the governments job to do anything in this field. When they do get involved, it becomes a horribly inefficient bureacracy and nothing more than indoctrination.
    The government has a job but should not directly influence it. I don't want national education, I'd rather we nationalized the banks to be honest.
    Through welfare, you're right.
    Welfare isnt the issue. You are playing politics here.

    Privatizing education is the way to go, to increase competitiveness and quality. And here's the deal: this means school is no longer compulsary. The demand for skilled labor will still stay the same, and then the people will voluntarily choose to go and want to get into good schools
    It's not a good solution. Private education in the current form will lead to rich people buying degrees and good grades.
    Drugs should not be illegal in the first place, and criminalizing them leads to many problems and social issues.
    I agree. But drugs should be regulated. Children should not drink coffee or smoke.
    Most of the people in prison do not deserve to be in there.
    I agree.


    I agree that there needs to be reform.

    Reduce gov't and let the people freely interact.

    Eliminate the welfare state and we'll have progress.
    It's difficult. We can't really reduce government but we should. We do however need to focus on high tech education software. I think private schools would work best if they are homeschool with the education taking place over the internet, like University of Phoenix. Beyond this I think we should have private schools and much smaller public schools.

  11. #31
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTraveler View Post
    Those schools aren't "better" schools. They are the more elite expensive schools and thats about it. The students dont learn more in those schools, the classes aren't smaller, the programs aren't better, the teachers and professors aren't better. What you are saying is "if you are born with the last name Bush or come from one of the elite families, the USA is a great country for your children."

    Yeah if you are born rich, I agree the USA is a great place for rich children, but I use averages because we aren't comparing the US aristocracy to the aristocracy of France and England, we are comparing countries and all our citizens count.

    Actually, the surveys do in fact suggest they are better.


    The league, which Shanghai’s academics admit is biased towards science-based universities, measures them on academic research, including the numbers of staff or alumni who have won Nobel prizes and Fields medals in maths; highly acclaimed researchers; and articles published in magazines such as Nature and Science. American universities dominate the table with the two top British universities among them
    .

    All of the schools mentioned offer academic scholarships and grants. Harvard is very difficult to obtain admissions but the other schools have many students that are not from elite families. Educational opportunities are availiable to all social classes in America, though honestly, many students seem uninterested and do poorly.



    Top 10 Universities Worldwide
    1. Harvard, US
    2. Stanford, US
    3. Cambridge UK England
    4. University of California, Berkeley, US
    5. Massachusetts Inst Tech, US
    6. California Inst Tech, US
    7. Princeton, US
    8. Oxford UK England
    9. Columbia, US
    10. Chicago, US

    http://www.learn4good.com/top10/universities.htm

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTraveler View Post
    It's difficult. We can't really reduce government but we should. We do however need to focus on high tech education software. I think private schools would work best if they are homeschool with the education taking place over the internet, like University of Phoenix. Beyond this I think we should have private schools and much smaller public schools.
    Home schooling was the worst idea since non sliced bread. There are so many valuable experiences that you miss out on (socially and academically) when you rarely interact with your peers and teachers/professors. That's why I love my college so much, meeting people from all over the world from different religions and class backgrounds. Learning from professors who are acclaimed experts in their fields and working with them on their research. Something I would have never gotten to experience to do enrolled exclusively at the University of Phoenix.

  13. #33
    Registered Senior Member Japarican's Avatar
    Posts
    148
    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    Since I am forever whining about US policy, let me insert here what they are doing right.

    1. The Americans recognise that their education system is crappy. So they import their brains.

    2. They also recognise that most Americans don't want to do laborious work [like fruit picking]. So they allow illegal immigrants to come and do it.

    Basically, if you're American you find someone else to do your physical and mental labour for you.

    This is very good for all the brains and fruit pickers.
    Well...that is a bit offensive. It's not fair to generalize. I'm American and damn proud to be one. I don't make assumptions about the work ethic in other countries or question a foreigner's intelligence.

  14. #34
    As a mother, I am telling you Syzygys's Avatar
    Posts
    12,627
    So many ignorants on this thread, you don't deserve the right to talk about education!!!

    1. The finishing % in HS doesn't say anything about the education level of the school system. On average an American kid is at least 1 year BEHIND in knowledge compared to a same age European schoolkid.

    2. You guys talk of HSs, then bring up top notch colleges. First, it is apples and oranges because different level of education, second, just because America has the top notch universities, the average level of education still can be very low.

    3. As an answer to the OP, true, unless it is a private school, the AVERAGE American school is not a place to raise your kid, if you have the choice to pick....

  15. #35
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by Syzygys View Post
    So many ignorants on this thread, you don't deserve the right to talk about education!!!

    1. The finishing % in HS doesn't say anything about the education level of the school system. On average an American kid is at least 1 year BEHIND in knowledge compared to a same age European schoolkid.

    2. You guys talk of HSs, then bring up top notch colleges. First, it is apples and oranges because different level of education, second, just because America has the top notch universities, the average level of education still can be very low.

    3. As an answer to the OP, true, unless it is a private school, the AVERAGE American school is not a place to raise your kid, if you have the choice to pick....

    Post a little rhetoric, a insult, and your opinion is supposed to prove what exactly?

  16. #36
    were playing prison rules huh? stateofmind's Avatar
    Posts
    1,338
    I thought it was interesting that South Korea had the highest graduation percentage. I recently saw a documentary on the BBC about South Korea's "lost generation." Apparently South Korea's government wanted to update its country and now South Korea is the most technological country in the world. There's a whole generation of kids that do little more than play video games on the computer and console. South Korea was the first country to recognize gaming addiction as a psychological illness. They're now rethinking their approach to education and tech-ization and considering giving up on this lost generation and starting anew.

    It's clearly not all about graduation percentage.

  17. #37
    Mourning in America madanthonywayne's Avatar
    Posts
    12,399
    Quote Originally Posted by TimeTraveler View Post
    Go ahead, blame the blacks and jews, just like the Germans did.
    First of all, are there many Jews in the inner cities? Secondly, I don't blame the students (except for the gang bangers), I blame the teachers unions and the Democratic party that treats our schools as a guaranteed job program for incompetent teachers rather than a place to educate children.

  18. #38
    Registered Senior Member
    Posts
    105
    Our society loves to do surveys and compile data. There are many schools in America that are under-funded that still manage to graduate students that go onto the next level. There are also well-funded schools that have students that play World of Warcraft a bit too much and think it's cool to be disruptive in class.

    Every student in America has the opportunity to obtain a quality education. Some do, some don't, it's really that simple. There are literally thousands of colleges spread across America offering scholarships, aid and student loans. It's lame to blame the teachers and schools for a student's failure to obtain an education in a country that has free libraries.

    Some students have an economical edge, but there are far too many examples of underprivileged children excelling in life to ignore the obvious. A quality education starts at home.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by madanthonywayne View Post
    First of all, are there many Jews in the inner cities? Secondly, I don't blame the students (except for the gang bangers), I blame the teachers unions and the Democratic party that treats our schools as a guaranteed job program for incompetent teachers rather than a place to educate children.
    I disagree, it's rarely the teachers fault either. It's the school board, pushing the test, because low test scores means less money. So the kids learn the test and nothing else. I remember my younger brother's teachers when he was in elementary school, saying they hated pushing the kids on to new subjects when they didn't really understand the previous chapter in the textbook, but it is not the teachers' call to make. They have to move fast to cover all of the material that the school board wants them to cover before STAR and CAT6 testing here at least here in California. You think they would get a hint when almost the whole class is taking remedial lessons after school. I mean even at the college level the professors are free to do what they wish in their classroom. Like changing the syllabus at will to match the class' needs. Grade school teachers aren't at liberty to do that, (at a public school).

  20. #40
    As a mother, I am telling you Syzygys's Avatar
    Posts
    12,627
    Quote Originally Posted by Aerika View Post
    blah-blah-blah
    Just the facts my dear, just the facts.

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. By Kailaurius in forum Science & Society
    Last Post: 07-09-12, 05:49 PM
    Replies: 6
  2. By Orleander in forum Ethics, Morality, & Justice
    Last Post: 10-21-08, 02:40 AM
    Replies: 99
  3. By skaught in forum Religion Archives
    Last Post: 10-09-08, 09:01 PM
    Replies: 14
  4. By Tazmaniac in forum World Events
    Last Post: 01-10-07, 07:18 AM
    Replies: 27
  5. By coberst in forum General Philosophy
    Last Post: 01-04-07, 05:31 AM
    Replies: 3

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •