Qadiani Muslims

So that I am not "preachy" I will simply let you know what the Qadiani Muslims believe. Which I thnk is OK in this forum. Ahmadiyya is dedicated to the revival and peaceful propagation of Islam. One problem for many Muslims is the interpretation of the Koran. This is because the original Koran which we believe fell from heaven into the hands of Mohammad is either lost or spirited away. Also, the very oldest Koran are not this original Koran - all Muslims (that is: Ahmadiyya) know this and most people who think of themselves as Muslims agree that this is so, and no Muslim here can even read the old Koran because the language it was written in is dead.

Lost to time.

That's a scientific fact that even German archeologists and Linguists agree to and have published about.

I challenge any so called Muslim her to then translate the oldest (in existant) Koran AND then PUBLISH their work. I am sure the German linguists and Arab archeologists would like to see this because they agree with me.

033.040
Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is ever Aware of all things.


You see, this "Seal" is the only reference in the entire Koran (and not the original Koran and we discussed the problems with these later day Koran) where someone might think if they take a skewed interpretation that Mohammad was the last. Now this isn't so.

Mohammad's part in Islam is to forgive you of your Sins. You can see this in the actions of his life. This is where the Chrisitians made the mistake with Jesus. Even they think Jesus is Allah, it makes no sense for Allah to forgive you for Himself! :bugeye:

See? So that's where Mohammad comes in. You see, it takes a Human of Perfection to look at another Human of Imperfection and then AS A HUMAN offer forgiveness. (this is only posted so as to let the listern know the History of Our Beleives - not to preach)

So, I think that now clears things up.

Back to History: In PUNJAB India, the Messiah was born as an incarnation of Jesus and Krishna and the Messiah's name was Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Now, it is said that his birth is to revitalize a spiritically dead beleif - that being old-Islam. In doing this one key plank is the concept of jihad - as a nonviolent battle against nonbelievers (to start with this would have to be of course other non-Islamic Muslims). To do this we use the pen as our weapon, Not The Sword!


Anyone can see how dead old-Islam is. Many agree old-Islam has become very violent and has nothing to offer to the new-generations. We already know that it will die out - which is why we are attacked. Just like an animal will lash out in it's dieing breaths for life, as it knows it is leaving this world, so does old-Islam lash out at us (look here and here)


This is also something we like to point to:

And call to mind when Jesus the son of Mary said, ‘O children of Israel, surely, I am Allah's messenger unto you, fulfilling that which is before me of the prophecies of the Torah, and giving glad tidings of a Second Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad.’ And when he came to them with clear proofs, they said, this is manifest sorcery.




So, now you know something about the History of what some people say they know is the True Islam.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Which Qadiani are you? The Lahoriya or the Community?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

United We Stand and Divided WE Fall.
- Aesop


As an Indian man you should appreciate this S.A.M.
Well thank you for caring but you have treated me badly and with a whopping 60000 posts it's too bad you didn't waste your life here and spreads the Good News about Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

While I hope I've given some people here some advice about what some people consider to be the TRUE Faith. I am not going to waste my time only here (60000 posts? - reminds me of people who watch Britney Spears).

People in my communittte ask Mohammad to FORGIVE them of their SINS (said as not preaching but to let you know). You can try it and when you feel Allah enter you and are forgiven then you can spend your time doing something productive.

Because I was a Jew I can say I understand you though - on some of your posts. That's the problem with ISOLATING. Which is your question HERE is trying to DO TO ME.

I suggest you just try to ask for Forgiveness.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide all adverts.

Any hoo

 

oopps I mean Any Who

 

So which is it, otheadp

 

Peaceful, you mean without jihad? Jihad (the inner and physical struggle against Shaytaan) is mentioned several times in the Quran. Will you deny the Quran to appear more acceptable to those outside of Islam (i.e. British)? Compromising in faith and the word of God falls into the errors of the previous nations of believers, look at what happened to the Children of Israel or the Christians when they rejected the message.

Furthermore, if an enemy floods your gates, you will have no choice but to fight. Jihad is a great struggle for the preservation of life and the defense of one's people. Without Jihad, Islam is not complete.

The error of Ahmaddiya ways is that they do not see that Islam is already complete. The Quran itself declared that this is the last message, the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the last prophet, and Islam is the religion chosen by God himself for his people.

"And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers." [Quran 3:85]

Interpretation of the Quran is not a problem for the Muslims of the world. We use the Hadith to interpret the Quran, because God says in this book that following the Prophet is following God. It's only a problem for those who reject hadith. These individuals are lost in error.

The original Quran is still available. if you say it is lost, prove your claims. Whosoever issues a claim against the Quran, no longer can be called a Muslim. Allah swt will judge him according to his errors.

"Verily, it is We [God] Who have sent down the message (i. e., the Quran) and surely, We will be its guardian.” [Quran 15:9]

Most people who consider themselves Muslims reject the Ahmadiyyas as Muslims, because one of the paramount definitions of a Muslim is to accept the Quran as the world of God, to accept that Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) is the final messenger of God. Fusha Arabic is not a dead language, even I can read it and speak it. Your points are mere conjecture without any proofs.

Which particular German and Arab scientists are you referring to? The oldest manuscript of the Quran is available in Istanbul, Turkey, it is known as the Osmaniye [Uthmani] Quran. You can visit the museum and read it, this should remove your unfounded doubts immediately.

The phrase used in this verse is "Khatami An-Nabiyeen". Khatam means end, close, seal, finish. Hence, according to the Quran, he is the finality of all prophets, the end of revelation. Furthermore, the Quran itself makes it clear that all verses in the Quran are equally valid and that no verse can be ignored while taking guidance from the Quran.

Your knowledge of Islamic theology is eschewed and you do not even understand the most basic of doctrine. Islam's foremost teaching is that only Allah swt has the right to reward his servants or to forgive them of their sins. The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) has no power do do either.

Muslims don't believe in reincarnation. This is a foreign belief adopted by heretics from Hindu philosophy. This is opposed to the religion of Abraham, the true religion of God. The Messiah was Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him), and it is very clear that there will come no other Messiah after him.

Furthermore, the concept of jihad is found extensively in the Quran. I see what you are doing and it is dishonest. You are sacrificing one of the central beliefs of Islam to appeal to Westerners. How long has Ahmadiyyat been on this Earth and what limited success it has achieved. There is no way this false prophet can be the Messiah. Jihad is necessary to resist colonialism, occupation, and genocide. Doing away with Jihad appeals only to those who have a vested interest in controlling Muslims. This is why the British supported the Ahmadiyya when they ruled India. They wanted to sideline those Muslims who fought tooth and nail with the British every day in Northwestern India (now Pakistan). This is also why the British support and provide revenue for the Ahmadiyya channel in the UK today. It's all a strategy to make Muslims servantile and weak. As long as we hold by the Quran and Sunnat of the Prophet, we shall be successful in our quest for self-determination. Insha' Allah, by the will of God.

I suppose you blame Muslims and Islam for the occupation of their lands by Israel, India, Russia, the Americans, and other foreign powers. No matter how many Muslims they kill, Islam will not die. Islam lives in the hearts of our people. They will have to tear out our hearts for them to remove Islam. Until there are no more Muslims in this world, we will defend our lands from foreign occupation. This is benevolent and Allah swt blesses the fight against invaders to protect one's people.

You only blame Islam, because it convenient for you to do so. You never blame those who occupy other people's lands. The Ahmadiyyas are seen as traitors for this exact reason, agents of oppressors and foreigners. They will never be accepted by the world's Muslims.

Ahmad = Praised One, Muhammad = One who is Praised, coming from the root word HAMD. Furthermore, the false Prophet Ghulam Ahmad's name means 'Slave of (Ahmad) Muhammad'. Ghulam meaning slave. Just as Abdul Muttalib's name was not Muttalib, so to Ghulam Ahmad isn't the same as Ahmad.

The main criterion for Prophets (regardless) is the message which they teach. If it far away from the faith of Abraham, mixing other religious doctrines, it can never be true.

Today I have completed my religion for you and perfected my favor on you and chosen al-Islam as your religion (5:3).

The Message was complete with the end of revelation to the prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). No other prophet is desired, nor necessary. Thus we see that false prophets will arise in the world, the Prophet already warned us about this. These false prophets are leading people into the fires of Hell. Allah swt has, however, blessed the world's Muslims as He has made disobedience to Him loathsome to us and made the practice of the true religion beloved to us. Alhamdulilah, All praise is due to God.

 

Dear DiamondHearts,

If only your could read your own posts. How much hate you are filled with.

You, They, Them, Foreigners, Infidels, Heretics, English, Indians, Russians ... .... ...
We, Us, Muslims, Pakistan, Me, Myself, I ... .... ...

There was nothing wrong with humans from one place on Earth coming to another place. When the British came from their area of Earth to the Place that is India that was fine. What is wrong is murdering people. You probably think Mohammad murdered people, but, he did not. He was always at Peace. Just like Buddha before him. What happened was the "You They Them" people thought with Hate along the lines of "We, Us, Me" and Violence happened.

You seem to forget that Allah isn't a Person Floating around on a Cloud. Allah is Nothing and Everything. It is exactly for people like you that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was reborn as an incarnation of Jesus and Krishna - He's Messiah.


Ask yourself: Are there Buddhists that are much closer to Allah then you DiamondHearts? Do you really think you are spiritually more enlightened than say, a Buddha?

Islam needed Mirza Ghulam Ahmad for people who think they are Muslims - people like you. The Buddhists are fine the way they are. They are already close to Allah - they even say as much themselves. So are the Hindu and Christians. It's only people such as yourself that are standing out in the cold - no wonder you have so much hate. It's not the British or Indians or Russians or Americans that are harming you - It's You.

To face up to that is just too much for most people. It's so much more easier and primate-like to point a finger and Hate. So, you keep feeding your hate Diamondhearts and see how that goes for you.

One last time, in case you missed it, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was reborn as an incarnation of Jesus and Krishna as the Messiah for You DiamondHearts, it's people who think they are Muslims that are on the wrong side of History at this point in time and who need the help. The Hindu and Buddhists are perfect just as they are.

 

So which type of Ahmediya are you JustLovely? Lahori or community?

 

I support the goal of freedom for all oppressed people, they do not have to be Muslim. We are, in this day and age, all the products of a long history of oppression and subjugation by the power centers of the West. Our brothers in South America, Africa, Southeast Asia, and all throughout the world will testify to this. It serves your interests to malign Muslims and to portray the problem of the occupation of our lands with us. The person on whom wrong is done, you would blame him for his miserable state. You are only tools of the occupiers.

That is exactly what the British did. You forget the burning of Lucknow, the expulsion of Muslims from Dehli, the execution and extermination of the Mughals, the man-made British engineered famine in Bengal, do you remember the massacres in Punjab?

You forget it because it is easy, but those of us who have lived through this and not surrendered our faith, nor have surrendered an inch of our right to rule the lands which our forefathers died for, we shall never forget. In a world of injustice, we know what is just? Invading, occupying, and destroying impoverished people is the farthest thing from justice. God will be witness to the injustices they have done.

He was a man of God. Murder is one of the greatest sins, and he was not involved in any such thing. What you say is an insult to all Muslims, have you no shame?

Furthermore, Islam may or may not recognize Buddha (Sidartha Gautama) as a Prophet, but Muslims recognize that his teachings have been eschewed to a large degree. All true prophets teach the same message: the worship of One God.

I have never stated that God is a person nor such a thing which you have uttered. Your mind plays tricks on you, you are making your own thoughts concerning my views without consulting me. Allah (swt) never stated He is nothing, nor that He is everything. You have been misguided by your false prophet. Furthermore, human beings do not incarnate as past personalities, this is an overt appropriation of Hindusim. Islam has nothing to do with this.

If you wish to learn about God, read the Ayat ul Kursi (the Verse of the Chair):

Allah! La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursi extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. [Quran Surat al Baqara 2:255]

I don't make judgements on spirituality. This is God's domain. Would you pronounce judgement, while God has not done so?

Islam does not need anyone. Islam exists as truth, truth is truth regardless if anyone holds its banner or not. Islam is the natural order by which God created the world, therefore whether people admit it or not, we are all servants of God. Our existence, in itself, is the greatest testament to the truth of Islam.

It is we who need Islam, not vice versa. It is we who need God, not vice versa. Whether we exist or not, it is of irrelevance to God. We serve God merely for our own ourselves, to earn his infinite Mercy and Pleasure. This is a very basic teaching of Islamic theology. It is quite clear you are not knowledgeable in Islam.

Furthermore, what gives you or anyone else the right to make distinctions amongst the disbelievers as to whom is more rightly guided than the believers? You appropriate to yourself judgement which is the sole right of God. Allah swt states that none shall obtain Paradise, without His will. Any religion besides Islam shall not be accepted of anyone. I have quoted this in my past post.

My final point is very important. Read carefully. The only reason why Ahmadiyyat can say what they are able to is because this world has sunk into a moral and spiritual vacuum because of the fall of true faith (Islam) and open persecution of the true believers (Muslims). Ahmadiyyat are only opportunists who are using the momentarily hardships faced by the Muslims to gain converts, to gain favor with foreign occupiers, and to make themselves acceptable to the exploitative world order which exists today. Without support of justice and freedom in the Muslim world, the Ahmadiyyat are outsiders, they are seen as agents of Western imperialisms, and products of it as well. The stances taken by its adherents prove this completely.

It is not hate to recognize your chains. It is not hate to recognize that the problems facing your people are the result of actions taken not only ten years ago, but 200 years when foreigners invaded your homelands and desecrated your lands. It is self-denial to believe that the oppression will cease, merely because the masters and exploiters desire to end it. Humankind, in their perverted state, care only for self gain, and sacrificing other people's lives is a justifiable consequence of it. This is not about me, nor is it about my country, nor my region. This is about the future of the Muslim world, and even the entire world in general, about the world where our children will reside. If we do not struggle to break our chains, our offspring shall be born as slaves, and this is unacceptable to real believers.

Our people have become too soft, we have lost the courageous spirit of our fathers. But you should know that the belly of the Muslim is stirring. You should realize that the domesticated Muslim, beaten and defeated in will, has been rejuvenated by the spirit of faith in God. Allah swt has promised victory to the righteous, and defeat to the forces of disbelief and tyranny. Justice is coming, we must support whether its popular or not.

So belief of One God and in His final prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) puts Muslims on the wrong side of history? History decided by whom, for what purpose? Will you follow the army of disbelief if you see them running into gates of Jahannam (Hellfire)? Will you abandon all justice, honor, and courage and will you take the cowardly, easy way out of the conflict between good and evil?

Don't you realize the covenant which God took of humans before they were given form? If the entire world bears falsehood, will you follow them into falsehood? No, for me there is only one way. If I be the last Muslim in this world, surrounded by disbelievers, I shall attest to truth no matter what.

Truth is truth. There is One God and Muhammad is his servant and final messenger (peace be upon him). If this entitles me to be persecuted or executed, so be it. The only thing in this world which matters is obedience to the one true God, the Lord of Abraham, everything else is secondary.

 

S.A.M.

We, Us, Them, They is it?

Ask Mohammad for forgiveness or don't, it's really your choice. As a matter of truth, only You can. Actually, I think when you do, you'll feel better for it. As a matter of fact, I KNOW, that if you truly look into your heart and ask Mohammad to forgive you, THEN and only then, you will be at peace. True peace. Real peace.

 

Muslims ask only God for forgiveness, not a man like Muhammad (peace be upon him). He was indeed a great man, but just a man like you or me.

 

DiamondHearts,

You my friend are filled with a lot of hate. You remind me of the Koreans who spit at Japanese. That's something you have to deal with.

History is just that.

The ONLY way you can achieve peace is if you reach DEEP DEEP into your heart and ask Mohammad for forgiveness. And I mean TRULY ask this.

But that's not what you want now is it? You don't want peace. You want hate.

Well, such is your choice so live with it, see how you like it, then if you ever have enough, ask Mohammad for forgiveness and give Peace a chance.

I say to you Mr/Ms person with a diamond hard heart, Allah doesn't dwell in places of Hate. Hate and Allah mix together like light and dark. It is evident how far far far you are from Allah's love because of your hate.

You should think about the statement There is One God, about what it really means. Find out why Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was reborn as an incarnation of Jesus and Krishna .... as the Messiah - for you. To help cure you of your Hate so that you can find Allah. As it stands now, you are as far from Allah as the Dark is from the Light.

 

Look I was just about to leave when I suddenly got a thought and so I rushed here.

DiamondHearts, we may have different views on things and I think that this is OK. I don't want you to live in such Hate, but, that's your choice to do so. But, I hope that you would never turn your Hate into Violence against another Human being? Just because some Human Beings understand that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was reborn as an incarnation of Jesus and Krishna and is the Messiah doesn't mean that you should harm them in any way. I worry that someone with so much Hate could potentially use it to hurt someone. So, please never do that.

 

If you think talking to dead people brings peace, by all means go ahead. In fact, I strongly suggest that you restrict your audience entirely to them.

 

Talking to Dead People can bring Peace S.A.M. That's why people like to say things to the beloved deceased while at their funerals. It's why people in China build shrines to the Dead. It's very very VERY common.

So, while in your deep seated pain you were trying to be mean to me (which is what pain does to people, it makes them mean), Allah actually brought some truth out of your words. Which means Allah cares for you S.A.M. While I don't like to use the word "He", as Allah is by no means Man (actually Allah probably has more attributes we would relate as feminine, but that's another story), you can ask Him for guidance by asking for forgiveness through Mohammad.

I promise you S.A.M. if you truly ask Mohammad to forgive you of your Sins, you WILL be at Peace.

Different people have different levels of consciousness. IQ test scientifically show this is true. An example would be in what is India. There Indians had a deep and long religious civilization and so Allah sent them Buddha. Buddha was more than a messenger. He was a genius. The reason Allah sent Indians Buddha was because of all the peoples on Earth only they had the thousands and thousands of years of religious mindedness to understand that message. Arab people could never have grasped Buddhist concepts and so they were sent Mohammad. People are sent Messengers for who they are at that time. He wasn't the last Prophet but he is the one you pray to for Forgiveness. Arab people are now highly Civilized and Minded people. So we can see that this was in fact perfect for them. Now that the world is of a different type of thinking it has finally caught up to Indians of 3000 years ago. So, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was then reborn as an incarnation of Jesus and Krishna and is the Messiah. Which is where we are now.

Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

 

DiamondHearts, Allah most certainly is not worried you believe in One God. Allah doesn't worry about such a thing! Do you think Allah cares if you pray towards a funny rock carved in the shape of a cow or a square? No, Allah is everything and nothing and so the answer is no. Allah cares about your peace. You can only find Allah by Peace, not by Violence.

Dark can not be one with Light.

 

Your ideas are so warped from human feeling, that sometimes I don't even think you believe what you yourself are saying.

You are continuing to say that somehow I am full of hate, yet I have never at any point in time indicated such. You are right to say there are somethings which I hate, oppression, genocide, and the dishonoring of my people. Yet how do you come to such a generalized conclusion? Perhaps you believe that by somehow denying your false prophet, this makes me a hateful person. I deny many other false prophets, for example Joseph Smith of the Mormons, this doesn't translate into that I'm 'filled with hatred' as you say. Recognizing the crimes done by man to other man reveals to us the ultimate truth that only God's law can bring justice on Earth. What you read from my statements is pure conjecture, please ask me next time if you have questions, rather than jumping to erroneous conclusions.

You do not realize, Muslims don't consider Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) divine. He is fully human, yet he is special because he is of exemplary character and chosen prophet of God. He cannot forgive sins, only God can. Muslim children, barely able to read the Quran, know this. This is a primary doctrine of the Islamic religion.

Furthermore, God DOES want us to worship him. He says in the Quran: "I have created Jinn and Man with no other purpose other than that they should worship Me." Islam's stance is very clear on this matter. You are attempting to create confusion in a matter which has already been resolved due to our Holy Book.

Confusion for the sake of confusion. Disbelief for the sake of disbelief. Error for the sake of error.

The truth is clear and in front of you, what greater crime can a people do to themselves than to reject it?

Allah swt guide us all to the straight path which He has chosen for us. Ameen.

 

DiamondHearts,

There's a part of me that worries you are going to harm yourself or another human. The first step in this process is to define yourself is better and different. All humans are humans. No one is better. We are all the same. Why do you and S.A.M. feel this need to separate people into groups is beyond me as that is the basic message in the Koran.

Do you think Allah does this?!?!

Allah who is everything - including the American, including the Indian? Allah is the Hindu, the Buddhist, the Iranian. Everything.
Allah doesn't "hear" your prayers silly. Allah doesn't have ears! Allah is the prayer. Which is why Peace is the Ultimate truth. Which is why "worshiping" is silly.

This is one of the big problems with thinking there is One God. The concept wasn't meant to mean One God as in a Man sitting on a Cloud in comparison to a couple of Men and Women sitting on clouds. While that's easy for you to comprehend, you turn right around and say some which for me is as silly.

Your Prayer itself IS Allah.

When to Pray to Mohammad your Prayer is Allah. You don't Pray to a Prayer! :bugeye:


Maybe you should read up on other faiths as the Koran instructs and then you can realize the deeper truths. The Koran was sent to a people at a certain mental stage. Some people are still at that stage and so they need to think in those simplest of thoughts. Simple things like being told to walk around a rock, or follow the leader, or pray 5 times as the Earth revolves. These are simple things to put people on the right path. But, other people were more complex (like Indians were back then from such a long religious history) and they think in the abstracts necessary to understand things as they truly are.


If you should ever find yourself so full of hate that you think about harming someone, then stop in this moment and try to remember that Allah created everything including Americans and Russians and Indians and Pakistani. Just because you have lines on your map doesn't mean Allah does. It's perfectly fine for a Russian to move to and live in Pakistan.

What's wrong is harming people and I can see you are already justifying it. Call it Jihad but really it's called Murder and even a Baby know's it's Evil.


You could find peace if you truly prayer to Mohammad to forgive you of your Sins. There's no other way that you WILL be at true Peace.

And you know how you can know that last statement is true DiamondHearts? Because you aren't really at peace are you?


Just don't harm yourself or someone else because they are at a different spiritual level of understanding and you should be at least OK for this life. Maybe better luck in the next life.

 

I really wonder Diamonhearts, do you think it's OK for me to be able to walk freely around Pakistan and convert my fellow Muslims to the true belief? Is it OK for me to support other Muslims that want to pray to Mohammad to forgive them of their Sins?