Extreme religious views

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by S.A.M., Apr 13, 2009.

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Are my religious views extreme?

  1. Yes

    9 vote(s)
    30.0%
  2. No

    15 vote(s)
    50.0%
  3. Some other opinion

    6 vote(s)
    20.0%
  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    A list of my extreme religious views.

    Please vote if you consider them extreme or not

    1. Everyone has a right to believe or not believe in God

    2. The Religion forum should be used only to discuss the scientific nature of religious belief i.e. only that which can be tested.

    3. Theists/atheists should not be persecuted for their beliefs, since God is not an empirical absolute and belief, by definition requires no evidence

    4. Atheists should be held to the same standards of scientific enquiry in the Religion forum as theists.
     
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  3. John99 Banned Banned

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    probably 'some other option'
     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    39,397
    I voted "no". None of the views listed are extreme, in my opinion.

    A comment, though:

    I disagree. I'd say the religion forum is for discussion of any aspect of religion. Comparative Religion is a stricter science-based forum.

    Much of religion has no scientific nature, so limiting discussion to scientific issues would pretty much kill off that forum.
     
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  7. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    43,184
    These views are not extreme. But you have been known to talk about atheists in less respectable ways. I'll vote 'no' though.
     
  8. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    13,968
    Number 3 is extreme, as it suggests religion only makes sense if it is somehow
    propped up by science (jargon).
    It is like limiting a discussion of music, to music, which has no more than 3 chords.

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    Number 4 is not so extreme as it is bizzare. Because atheism is a lack of belief
    in God, and requires no scientific scrutiny.

    I think we can use science to validate our own perceptions and understandings of our belief or lack of, but it has no bearing on whether God exists, or not.
    If God exists, then God is the cause of everything, and our perceptions or belief, or not, is due to God.

    God is way to massive to limit to science or religion, IMHO.

    Jan.
     
  9. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,624
    Fixed that for you.

    Sam, while I don't think your religious views themselves are that extreme, BUT your religious views cause your political views to be way, way extreme.

    Your religious views = tolerable

    Your political views = can take a fuckin one way hike into oblivion
     
  10. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    You mean because I believe in respecting the sovereignty of nations and the right of people to self determination in their own lands, without the threat of invasion and occupation?

    Yeah, that is radical
     
  11. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    4,624
    What was your opinion of Saddam and Iraq at the time they unjustly invaded Kuwait back in 1991?
    Answer your opinion on that and that only or don't answer it at all; I don't fuckin need to hear about some stupid unrelated topic that you will undoubtedly include in your most likely asinine response.
     
  12. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    I think it was unnecessary, they should have found some other way of dealing with Kuwait stealing their oil.
     
  13. Clucky Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    107
    I voted for "some other opinion."

    That opinion being that although the views you have dictated in the OP are not extreme, it really has no bearing on me whatsoever. Even if they were, why would it matter? You're free to have an opinion on topics, such as these, and people may, or may not, disagree with you, but as long as you can justify such views sufficiently, it really doesn't matter. I don't particularly care how extreme your views are.
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    72,825
    You mean kill off the fun that atheists get baiting and trolling theists.

    Thanks Clucky

    You remind me of myself when I first joined the forums. Before I was "radicalised" by all the crap thrown at me for my beliefs.
     
  15. Clucky Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    107
    I would always consider that a compliment Sam.

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  16. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    11,529
    I voted no, but I disagree with number 3

    If we're going to have a state, we might as well utilizie it; I do think we should forcibly remove religious people and nationalists from society, and make theism a crime

    However this goes against my libertarian beliefs, so that is why I said "if we're going to have a state"


    Ah well. Too bad. Just a thought
     
  17. Pete It's not rocket surgery Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,167
    Hi Sam,
    Are these really the most extreme views that you have?
    I hesitate to call them religious views. I don't think there are any religious views on the list. Anyone reading the list can't even tell whether you believe in God.
    But to answer the poll, no. Nothing on the list appears to qualify as extreme, by any ordinary understanding of the word.

    Anyway, enough of "About the members", let's get to the real discussion.

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    Well, I think the religious forum is also a useful place to discuss such things as philosophy in a religious context, morality, and logical arguments from religious (untestable) premises.

    There are a lot of interesting ideas in this one.
    I agree with the conclusion (that people shouldn't be persecuted based on whether or not they believe in a godlike supernatural being), but I can't quite fathom the premises given.
    What is an "empirical absolute and belief"?
    What definition (of God?) specifies that (belief in its existence?) requires no evidence?
    What links the premise to the conclusion? I.e. What is your basis for determining whether or not persecution of a person (or group of people) is justified? (Maybe we'd better specify what kind of persecution is involved as well, since its an ambiguous and emotive term.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2009
  18. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    I don't consider them extreme or views that are religious. Rather, these appear to be views related to religion and the religion forum.

    Agreed.
    Agreed. But I would add that also topical for discussion is the nature in which religion and science affect each other.
    Agreed
    Agreed.

    Moderator note: (Q)'s posts were deleted as they were flaming/trolling.
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

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    An empirical absolute would be something that could not only be perceived but whose perception would be agreed upon through consensus.

    Belief -any cognitive content held as true

    I believe that the difference between belief and knowledge is one of perception.

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    Premise would imply that knowledge is required to convert belief to conclusion.

    Persecution: whatever it is that is the fate of the minority report.
     
  20. Anti-Flag Pun intended Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,714
    Given that you started a thread on the distinct possibility of a gods existence and would be on the list of the removed, I'm not entirely sure quite how to say this however;

    I'm all for it.
     
  21. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,452
    How is atheism an extreme? It's only extreme because people insist on believing in God. You can call it a right only if there is some kind of perverse legislation or unjust persecution involved. None of this is necessary.

    Then we're right back to the non-necessity of religion.

    Then critiquing for believing should be allowed. Killing them for it is a little harsh. Having no religions would take care of that problem.

    Both are unprovable and do not require speculation although that is what persists. Another point for not needing religion.

    * Religion is extreme but the most extreme is indoctrination
     
  22. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    43,184
    SAM, what is the difference between theists and atheists after death ?
     
  23. Tyler Registered Senior Member

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    4,888
    Of course 1 ought to be true.

    The second is blatantly false and stupid. If the only thing this forum is good for is discussing whether or not religious belief has a scientific grounding then there is essentially only need for one thread. The religious forum ought to be open to any theological debate.

    Any belief on religious matters which remains personal - that is, one does not use their religious conviction to limit the freedom of others - ought to be permissible.

    If scientific reasoning and proof are the tools two people use to discuss a subject, then they ought to both use that tool appropriately. Of course. Sometimes theological debate does not include much room for reason (N.B. this is not an attack, there are genuinely many theologians - Christian, Buddhist, Taoist - who would argue that reason has only a very small place in theological arguments), in which case two people can use whatever other tool they agree upon.

    For instance, I am an atheist, but I feel I could discuss Buddhism and try my best to observe Buddhist lines of reasoning, which are far from 'scientific'.
     

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