Jesus: Is there a point?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Tnerb, Apr 12, 2009.

  1. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    Believing in Jesus or religious fanatics or extremists?

    They exist, therefore, we should believe in them?
    It is the validity of those beliefs. Or the reason to accept them as true. Or something....

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    My thoughts were that if we accept Jesus as having any meaning or there being a meaning to a religious fanatic or a religious extremist or a reason for them to have any point at all in belief.

    If I believe Jesus is true (debate here people), or God is true, or a religious fanatic or extremist, if I believe in one of those things, surely, it would not make it absolutely true right?


    I'm just really curious. I had wondered if there is a point to believing in God. Any point at all. Why would believing in God be a good thing?

    thoughts?
     
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  3. Xylene Valued Senior Member

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    Are you debating whether to believe in the existence of Jesus as an historical figure, or whether to abide by the original Christian message of peace, love and goodwill towards other people? I say 'original Christian message' because it's got a bit muddied over the intervening 2000 years.
     
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  5. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    Pretty muddied. Also

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    ... just wondering what point there is in believing in Jesus/God/(and not the FSM: I consider the FSM to be a cruel name to call god that .. well this may be the main point/issue: Perhaps there is no point to the FSM. Either regards discussion god or not we're still wondering weather there is a point to his belief.).

    Or should I say "belief in him". It's really confusing just thought I would ask.
     
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  7. Xylene Valued Senior Member

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    The identification of God as a personification of an idea goes back thousands of years, I'd say--right to the beginning of when Humans developed enough brains to start thinking beyond mere survival. Jane Goodall spoke about watching a group of chimpanzees in Gombe staring in fascination at the rainbow hues in the spray on a waterfall; so contemplation (however dim) of the beautiful and strange in Nature is not confined to Humanity, and is, I guess, of very ancient origin, waaay before Humans emerged to what we term intelligence.

    It could be that as we evolve towards higher and higher levels of intelligence (which seems to be the way we are going, despite the general evidence of history being to the contrary) we will pass beyond the need for physical bodies. I'm assuming here that there is an afterlife, and that some part of the mind or personality of any Human survives physical death. Hopefully I'm right.

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    If so, in that case we go on learning new stuff in the afterlife, and eventually we don't need to return to the physical plane to learn new lessons. This seems to be the main idea of those who espouse reincarnation, that eventually they achieve nirvanah, or reunion with God.

    However, I can't see that would be much use--there's no point gaining knowledge unless you're going to employ it to help others. Personally I like the Chinese and Indian ideas of the really advanced souls coming back to teach new lessons to new cultures.

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  8. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

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    The truth isn't something that we can make, we got to be humble in respect to other peoples truth. Of course there is only one real truth, sometimes we see things more clearly, but most of the time we just don't know exactly how things really are - and we should be humble also in respect to our own truth, cause it is something above us.
     
  9. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    Perhaps you would say that the idea is that belief in a God is personal. It is something that invokes the thoughts you've mentioned above which all well written.:bugeye: Also.... I feel the buddhists are acting out the salvation and perhaps dont' know the details of actual reality.
     
  10. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    Sure but surely not always respecting only ourselfs. If we do this we're really removing many sins of the bible, male and female comparisons and contrasts....
     
  11. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    You might go farther and word it differently. Either way still same result

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    The buddhists don't do jack but act out the theories they have of their "religion" buddhism. They are really kind of immature. That is a pretty strong point in Buddhism. But still not reason enough to believe other ideas or something.
     
  12. Bishadi Banned Banned

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    Or the opinions of/from....the above?!?!?

    i also believe Darwin existed (confucius, galileo, muhammed; existed)

    i exist......

    but opinions of me will vary

    Jesus did things that have meaning, yet when you or i leave, who knows what how the meanings are going to be described.

    truth is measured against what we can experience, not by what we believe.

    such if Moses said something that is true and you can understand and experience it, then you learned something from the gift left by moses; his meaning lives in you (as an example)

    Often what we do not understand we attribute to 'another' did it. Some call the 'other' a God, an angel, a saint or even Quetzalcoatl.

    My thoughts are we live within 'existence'.....(mother-nature....aka..God)

    What the guy across the street defines as God and what i do are not so different but often interpretations will get in the way.

    i personally believe, each addition we add to the understanding of existence, the more words, comprehension and appreciation the next generation can have for God (existence itself).
     
  13. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    I often wonder the same thing.

    Its not like believing in something makes it so, or, not believing in it makes it not so.

    I can't imagine a good person who would care if you "believed" in them before you knew about them. In fact I imagine most people would look at you a bit askance if you said..."I never met you before and had no solid evidence that you existed but 2000 years ago bronze age sheep herders wrote down what they imagined you would want and I've followed the parts I like religiously."

    Pretty creepy actually. Of course people keep telling me that god isn't as moral as I or your average person and is really insecure about not being believed in correctly.

    Still, I would thing a good god who valued things like the truth would respect a person who went with the facts as they understood them. But what do I know?
     
  14. Xylene Valued Senior Member

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    The argument of most theists is that the motivating power of the mind and body is the soul, and that the soul comes directly from God, in whatever the Supreme Being is conceived to exist. Therefore, goes the belief, each of us on Earth (and presumably elsewhere in the Universe as well) are enlivened by small sparks thrown off from the fire of the Infinite Soul of God. A lot of people reckon that this is the way God has chosen to experience the world, through the feelings and experiences of those people who each contain part of the Eternal Soul.
     
  15. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    The Christian message of peace, love & goodwill is overwhelmed by the Christian message of hate, fear, violence, coercion, mindnumbing unquestioning faith, blind robotic servitude & threats of torture.
     
  16. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    There is no point to following a man who curses a fig tree, spouts more nonsense than sense, tells his disciples he speaks in parables so that most will not understand, approves slavery & the treatment of women as subhuman, lies, demands blind unquestioning obedience & tells people to preach to animals.
     
  17. John99 Banned Banned

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    for a minute there i thought you were talking about yourself.
     
  18. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    He was

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  19. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    Sounds like he's in love
     
  20. John99 Banned Banned

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    i thought it was kind of funny.
     
  21. Tnerb Banned Banned

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    ha ha very funny :shy:
     
  22. Xylene Valued Senior Member

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    I think the main mssage of Christianity (IMO only) is that we look within ourselves, and see what we can do to advance ourselves spiritually through the lessons we learn in each life. Christianity taught reincarnation until the 3rd or 4th Century, until the powerful people in the early church realised that folk could be more easily manipulated if they were made to believe there was only one life. The bible was supposedly revised to remove all mention of reincarnation. If so, I'd like to see a direct, accurate and unambiguous translation of any very early scriptures, to see whether they actually do mention rebirth of the soul in another body.
     

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