9/11

Ok, the 9/11 thread was closed down over in the Formal Debates forum. I was hoping it could be reopened here to talk about the scientific issues (such as whether the planes could really have brought down the WTC buildings) as well as the social ones (how it helped in getting the U.S. into 2 wars).

Hoping it can work out here, as all the active 9/11 threads were closed down over in pseudoscience, so don't think that's a place for them either and Skinwalker, a moderator for the History forum, already closed down a thread over in the Religion forum for simply mentioning 9/11.

So, what do people think? Could the planes and the ensuing jet fuel initiated fires truly have brought down the WTC buildings, and so quickly at that?

And would the U.S. get into 2 wars if it weren't for that event?

 

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I just find the fall of building 7 rather odd.

 

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I guess not.

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I would like sensible scientific comments on this paper from people who have read the paper, and reasonably understand it. It can be downloaded by clicking the green "download" button and is not overly technical so most of us here should be able to understand it.

The paper claims that explosive incendaries were found following a forensic examination of samples of the world trade centre dust. It has been peer reviewed and published in an open Chemical Physics Journal so is available free of charge.

it can be downloaded here:
Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM

 

Indeed. A dutch demolition expert who didn't know that it had happened on 9/11 concluded that it was -definitely- a demolition. He was astonished to find out that it occured just hours after the collapse of the Twin Towers. Here's a video clip of his being shown the video of WTC 7 collapse and then that it had happened on 9/11. He was quite surprised but he didn't let go of his belief that it was a controlled demolition:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3DRhwRN06I

 

A drop in the bucket; there's been 2 threads in the pseudoscience forum concerning 9/11 that stretched for more then 100 pages each. And this is just in sciforums. Something as important as what really happened on 9/11 and the effects that it's caused can't be resolved easily.

 

a short video showing ignition of a tiny red/grey chip.
the high energy release can be seen visually and the heat produced was higher than the melting temperature of steel.
the size of the red/grey chip was 1mm x 1mm.

http://journalof911studies.com/volume/2008/oxy_redchip_slow.mov

 

Yes, 35 pages was enough.

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For a second there, I thought you had -actually- closed the thread. I'm guessing you're not a moderator here or you would have. I'm fine with this thread going anywhere so long as where it goes will have reasonable protections from being closed.

chris, at any rate, thinks that what happened in WTC 7 is suspicious and he's not alone in suspecting something is fishy there or more then fishy (actor Charlie Sheen thinks WTC 7 was indeed a controlled demolition).

What I'd like to know is why do so many people marginalize this issue so much when there are so many voices, both within the U.S. and without, who question the official story regarding 9/11? The Guardian, a UK paper that seems to support the official story regarding 9/11 nevertheless mentions in its article Conspiracy theory top 10 that 9/11 is number 2 when it comes to conspiracy theories that people believe, with 38% believing the twin towers were taken down by controlled demolitions; the only thing that outranked it was the believe that Area 51 exists to investigate aliens (48% believe this).
An MSNBC online poll that asked the question "Do you believe any of the conspiracy theories suggesting the U.S. government was somehow involved in 9/11?" has 67% who picked "Yes. The government has left many questions unanswered about that day". Only 27% picked "No. These theories are absurd and disrespectful -- especially to those who lost their lives on 9/11" and 5.4% picked "I'm not sure". The total respondents is 95506 as of this writing. If you do the math, this means that about 63,989 people said yes compared to only around 25,786 who said no and about 5157 who aren't sure.

Why do so many feel so comfortable with ignoring or shutting down discussion of this issue, when so many people disagree with the official story?

The poll was actually part of an article that spoke of David Ray Griffin, an eminent liberal theologian and philosopher and author that has written many books questioning the official 9/11 story, entitled 9/11 conspiracy theorists multiply - Many Americans suspect U.S. government involvement or complicity. In it, it speaks of how David Ray Griffin went from someone who wholeheartedly believed in the official story to someone who found that the official story was simply untenable. The article clearly suggests that as more people look closely at the evidence at the official story, more people are becoming convinced that the official story simply can't be true.

Perhaps those who can best answer this question are some psychologists and psychiatrists, that are summed up in an article over at infowars.com, titled Psychiatrists and Psychologists: Government's 9/11 Story is Crazy. I have a feeling, however, that it may be a long time before the mainstream media questions the official story concerning 9/11 as much as, say, the JFK assasination or the Gulf of Tonkin incident.

Anyway, the above linked to article links to a few articles from psychologists and psychiatrists and then sums up this way:
There are literally thousands of other mental health professionals who have reached the same conclusions. So who is out of touch with reality: those who question 9/11 or those who believe the government's version without question?

It doesn't support its assertion that there are thousands of other mental health professionals who feel this way. But there are certainly thousands if not millions of -people- who feel this way and I don't think that ignoring this will resolve anything.

 

Wow an actor?!? Then there must be something to the conspiracy! After a life of show business, drugs and prostitutes I think he is just the hero your conspiracy needs to give it some credibility…

Read the other damn conspiracies on your pointless poll. If threads were constantly started about those people would get sick of hearing them as well. It really isn’t confusing Scott. People just get frustrated with stupidity after a while.

And don’t think of trying to put it down to people’s fear of believing that the conspiracy could be true.

Utter nonsense. Comments like this “Twelve percent believe a cruise missile hit the Pentagon.” Make it clear how irrelevant that poll is. People want to believe in conspiracy theories. Only a few years ago, 7% of Americans thought Elvis was still alive! Thankfully the truth is not a public popularity contest.

Griffin has put together some of the worst collection of claims regarding 911. He should have stuck to religion and philosophy. I guess he wouldn’t have made as much money though……

You have used up hundreds of pages posting your claims and it doesn’t matter how many times people point out the mistakes in them you refuse to believe otherwise. Perhaps you should ask a mental health professional about that.

 

why are you complaining? you had every right to lock the thread as soon as it was posted

oops, just noticed you aren't the moderator of this sub forum, sorry.

 

threads generally go to 35 pages and beyond because some people project their own consciousness into their posting, and type every silly little thought that enters their heads in order to dilute threads to the point of tedium it seems, like you have done above.

why do you want the thread locked? and why do you state publicly that you want the thread locked? It is this kind of fearful censorship that made me take a closer look at 911.

why don't you comment on the forensic study that found explosive material at the world trade centre, instead of projecting your off-the-cuff feelings into the thread.

http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM

 

This is in response to Fraggles comments in the locked thread, i just want to explain things.

first of all these guys are a little paranoid and i will try and stop responding to them. i admit i get bored and post things that are sometimes OT.

afa the Iraq comment, i though this was common knowledge and further citation wasnt necessary because i think i read that on bbc web site and i am not going searching for it but i dont think it was extraordinary comment to make. i should have stated that it is applicable to CERTAIN areas.

toofer.

the term toofer is not used in this context to mean canadians. i thought this was common knowledge.

 

John, it was your comments that helped get the other thread closed. Great Job.

It is a shame the moderator didn't just ban you from that thread instead of punishing everyone else. That would have been more appropriate.

 

Both his father and Charlie are quite good actors and have both delved in politics as well. You latch on to the fact that he's had some issues with drugs and prostitutes and think that sums him up? Sorry, but no.

I think that the following link gives a more in depth picture of the man:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000221/bio

 

You seem to be under the impression that him being a good actor qualifies him to speak on building fires and collapses. You also seem to be under the impression that having a father who is a good actor somehow matters as well.

You're completely right Scott! Look - "Loves barbeque sauce, and has even thought about releasing his own brand someday. Is a baseball fanatic and is extremely knowledgeable about the sport as well as past and current players. Has a tattoo on his chest that looks like a note pinned to it that reads, "Be Back in 15 Minutes." Charged with misdemeanor battery against his ex-girlfriend Brittany Ashland." ect ect

Yes listing his movies with some inane (and some disturbing) facts really paints a great picture of a potential leader for your silly conspiracy. But you don't get it and will somehow manage to never get it. He is not an expert on these issues. His opinion is no more relevant than yours or mine.

 

You are mistaken in thinking Mr Sheen is putting forward an expert opinion, he is putting forward an informed opinion, not an expert opinion. Having a successful career and being in the public eye, he certainly has a lot more to lose than anonymous internet anti-truther stalkers, and he has nothing materailly to gain (although perhaps spiritually he has) so i would argue his informed opinion is more relevant, he has put his money where his mouth is so-to-speak.

 

Sorry but the hammers dropped Scottx.

These threads have been done and done again and if anything it's chased legitimate members away from the forum because of how intolerable they've become. If you want 9/11 as a pet subject, I'd really suggest getting yourself a website to house a forum for your rantings and invite others to participate over there.

This basically means 9/11 threads are an Autolock now, you've had your fun, leave the floor open for someone else.