What do you like about Islam?

**joepistole** · 03-11-09, 11:39 AM

Since there is much discourse about Islam and how it is unfairly maligned in the West. I thought it might be interesting to start a thread about what is liked or good about Islam. So go for it! What is good about Islam?

**S.A.M.** · 03-11-09, 11:45 AM

I like the independence of thought. What you think about God, religion, good, bad, right, wrong is fairly flexible.

There is a lot of room to accomodate the simplest person with ideas of an anthropomorphic God and the Lake of fire, to philosophical postulates that embrace the next century.

In short, I like the simplicity

**spidergoat** · 03-11-09, 11:55 AM

The mosques have interesting architecture.

**mikenostic** · 03-11-09, 11:56 AM

Nothing.
However I don't say that in the context of singling Islam out. "Nothing" for me is a blanket response for any theistic religion.

**joepistole** · 03-11-09, 01:04 PM

I like polygamy and familes seem to be close. And you are right Spidergoat...some amazing architecture!

**electrafixtion** · 03-11-09, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by S.A.M.

I like the independence of thought. What you think about God, religion, good, bad, right, wrong is fairly flexible.

There is a lot of room to accomodate the simplest person with ideas of an anthropomorphic God and the Lake of fire, to philosophical postulates that embrace the next century.

In short, I like the simplicity

...sounds exactly like Catholicism.

**S.A.M.** · 03-11-09, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by electrafixtion

...sounds exactly like Catholicism.

Not sure which Catholicism you're familiar with, but I always found the divinity of a carpenter and cannibalism of his body and blood hard to stomach. Nevertheless, I enjoyed the masses whenever I went with my friends.

This is not a judgement on Catholics, just one of the reasons why it did not appeal to me.

**mikenostic** · 03-11-09, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by S.A.M.

Not sure which Catholicism you're familiar with, but I always found the divinity of a carpenter and cannibalism of his body and blood hard to stomach.

Protestants do that to an extent too. But they use small crackers and grape juice to symbolize that.
I remember having to do that in church when I was a kid, but it lost its meaning on me and my cousin Anthony because we were starving hungry at the time and just considered the crackers and juice a pre lunch snack. Haha.

**S.A.M.** · 03-11-09, 01:42 PM

I used to be jealous of missing out on the sugar and wine until I found out what it signified. Even tried to sneak into the line for communion.

**Baron Max** · 03-11-09, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by S.A.M.

I used to be jealous of missing out on the sugar and wine until I found out what it signified. Even tried to sneak into the line for communion.

So the symbolism is lost on you completely, right? You actually think that you're eating the body of Christ and drinking his blood? ...LOL!

And there are no symbols of a like nature in Islam?

Baron Max

**~~CheskiChips~~** · 03-11-09, 01:56 PM

I like how they simply change the name from "Jacob" to "Ishmael" and all of the sudden they are a holy people.

**S.A.M.** · 03-11-09, 01:57 PM

Well there is Bakri Eid, where the goat/sheep/camel/cow replaces Abraham's son

It turned my sister off, but I like meat too much

**S.A.M.** · 03-11-09, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by CheskiChips

I like how they simply change the name from "Jacob" to "Ishmael" and all of the sudden they are a holy people.

Jacob is Israel, not Ishmael. Ishmael is Hagar's son.

Jacob (Israel)

Jacob was the son of Isaac and Rebekah, and the twin brother of Esau (Genesis 25:23-26). Jacob, meaning "grabber", was born clutching Esau's heel. He eventually received his father's blessing that was meant for Esau. Cheated by his brother, Esau vowed to kill Jacob (Genesis 27:41). Jacob left his home and went to the town of Padan Aram, where his uncle, Laban, lived.

At the outset of his journey, near Bethel, Jacob was given a vision by God of Israel's future: that the Jews would establish their own nation, that they would be scattered like dust to the ends of the earth, that they would have a worldwide impact, and that they would one day return to their homeland. All of these things of course have happened, long after the prophecy from Jacob was written down.

After working seven years as a herdsman for his uncle Laban, Jacob wanted to marry Laban's youngest daughter Rachel. But, Laban deceived Jacob by giving him his eldest daughter, Leah, in marriage. Jacob consented to work another seven years for the permission to marry Rachel.

Leah bore Jacob four sons, Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah. Rachel, who was barren, gave her maid, Bilhah, to bear Jacob's children for her. Bilhah bore Dan and Naphtali. Leah likewise gave Jacob her maid, Zilpah, who bore him Gad and Asher. Afterwards Leah gave birth to Issachar and Zebulun, and Jacob's only daughter, Dinah. Only then did Rachel conceive, bearing Joseph.

Jacob packed up his large family and went back to Canaan. On that trip, at night Jacob wrestled with an angel, asking for a blessing. At last the angel blessed him and gave him a new name: Israel ("You have stuggled with God.") Jacob made amends with his brother Esau. Rachel died in childbirth of Jacob's last son, Benjamin.

http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/p22.htm

I'm surprised you don't know that.

Ishmael:

The son of Abraham and Agar, the Egyptian. His history is contained in parts of Genesis 16-25, wherein three strata of Hebrew tradition (J, E, P) are usually distinguished by contemporary scholars. The name "Ismael", which occurs also in early Babylonian and in Minæan, was given to the child before its birth (Genesis 16:11), and means: "may God hear".

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08192a.htm

**electrafixtion** · 03-11-09, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by S.A.M.

Not sure which Catholicism you're familiar with, but I always found the divinity of a carpenter and cannibalism of his body and blood hard to stomach. Nevertheless, I enjoyed the masses whenever I went with my friends.

This is not a judgement on Catholics, just one of the reasons why it did not appeal to me.

I don't believe there was ever any divinity of a carpenter so to speak, nor was there any cannibalism that I remember, but they do burn incense which is pretty cool.

The main thing is that you can pretty much do whatever you want as long as you are willing to talk about it afterwords.

Ah, you know what they say: One man's Cannibalism is another mans Jihad.

**joepistole** · 03-11-09, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by Baron Max

So the symbolism is lost on you completely, right? You actually think that you're eating the body of Christ and drinking his blood? ...LOL!

And there are no symbols of a like nature in Islam?

Baron Max

Baron, Catholics really do believe that the wafers and wine are transmuted to the body and blood of Christ when injested. It is to me a sort of a quirky belief in my opinion...again not to deride or offend any Catholics.

**nietzschefan** · 03-11-09, 03:37 PM

uhhh ....well... not sure.

**~~CheskiChips~~** · 03-11-09, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by S.A.M.

Jacob is Israel, not Ishmael. Ishmael is Hagar's son.

I'm surprised you don't know that.

Ishmael:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08192a.htm

I meant Isaac, Isaac gave birth to Jacob.

My point was Isaac was the righteous one in the Torah, in the Q'Ran all of the sudden Ishmael was the righteous one. More specifically tradition has it in the Q'Ran that Ishmael was the one brought to be sacrificed...it's left unnamed. Though in the Torah (well older than the Q'Ran) clearly has Isaac.

I'll give you another thing I like about Islam on this same topic.

Hagar in Hebrew means "The Stranger" and in Arabic it means "Here is your compensation"

**spidergoat** · 03-11-09, 03:59 PM

At some point in the distant past, Islamic scholars respected scientific inquiry and preserved many important documents from Greece and Rome.

**S.A.M.** · 03-11-09, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by CheskiChips

I meant Isaac, Isaac gave birth to Jacob.

My point was Isaac was the righteous one in the Torah, in the Q'Ran all of the sudden Ishmael was the righteous one. More specifically tradition has it in the Q'Ran that Ishmael was the one brought to be sacrificed...it's left unnamed. Though in the Torah (well older than the Q'Ran) clearly has Isaac.

Actually, it was the older son. The controversy is who was older.

edit:Or not.

some rabbinic sources claim that Sarah worried that Ishmael would negatively influence Isaac, or that he would demand Isaac's inheritance on the grounds of being the firstborn.

So its acknowledged that Ishmael was firstborn.

I'll give you another thing I like about Islam on this same topic.

Hagar in Hebrew means "The Stranger" and in Arabic it means "Here is your compensation"

In Arabic it means the forsaken or retired. Apparently, it can also mean the wanderer and hence the Prophet's Hijra.

But she was Egyptian. The Pharoahs daughter. He gave her to Sarah when Sarah lived with the Pharoah as his wife.

What does it mean in Egyptian?

**~~CheskiChips~~** · 03-11-09, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by S.A.M.

Actually, it was the older son. The controversy is who was older.

edit:Or not.

So its acknowledged that Ishmael was firstborn.

Right, no one denies whether he was older, it's known he is.

Sarah descended of Shem is the relevance here as compared to Hagar of Ham.

In Arabic it means the forsaken or retired. Apparently, it can also mean the wanderer and hence the Prophet's Hijra.

Are you sure? "هاجر" I heard it came from another word which meant payment, recompense, compensate.

But she was Egyptian. The Pharoahs daughter. He gave her to Sarah when Sarah lived with the Pharoah as his wife.

What does it mean in Egyptian?

It's unlikely that anyone actually knows that, if you can actually find that it'd be interesting. However, it's unlikely that her name in Egypt was "Hagar". The names of different Jews names in Egyptian exist most often listed in different sources. Meaning her name would have been given post-addendum...those names have meaning similar to the name Bavyl which was massacred by the great mod Skinwalker.