New Scientist: Religion - a product of our evolved brains

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Michael, Mar 9, 2009.

  1. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    New Scientist
    The Gods have been localized to mirror neurons in the lateral frontal lobe - specifically the in the premotor cortex and the inferior parietal cortex. They visit the right inferior temporal gyrus and the the medial temporal and frontal gyri.

    I am greatly looking forward to such information becoming common place in modern K-12 educational systems.

    M
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    So animals and atheists are less evolved? I see.

    Sounds like a wide leap in assumptions to me.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Najeeb Registered Member

    Messages:
    1
    good morning or afternoon or good evening

    I'm not sure if this is the right Michael i am speaking to. But i will send you the message, i was browsing and was refereed to this website, read few posts, interesting debates. Especially about religion and GOD and etc... below is your post which made me join this forum. Foremost The reason we use ALLAH is because you cant SAY ALLAHS, doesn't exist, with the word GOD, we can make goddess or gods and etc. Allah = one God

    You can actually find a massive debate on this matter on Youtube.com by a very renowned scholar AHMAD DEEEDAT. Make sure you check it, he goes in under scrutiny analyses of religion.

    Regarding if god exists and etc (i do apologise for writing ''etc'') i am in hurry, so i will try to cover your points and give you few names if you are still interested in researching in the field of Islam or GOD.

    Also Try Dr.Zakir Naik very intelligent and renowned Muslim scholar.

    why Quran is so special, because it has not been altered for 1400 years, so it is in its original form, the original copies are in Istanbul. And also the revelation came to Mohammad (pbuh) and they put it all together. Also i would like to refer you to get this cd, its great i can post it to you if you want but need a address or alternatively you can order it yourself It is called Miracles of Quran (Modern science reveals new miracles of the quran) By Harun Yahna. If you cant find it make sure you let me know and i will send you my copy.

    Also there is no such thing as oldest quran or modern quran. Its only one copy since it had been revealed to prophet.

    By the way my best friends name was Michael (i miss him). Sorry back to the subject.

    You might think to yourself why is this child went through all this trouble to inform me about islam and etc. Well it is very endearing to me to see a person such as yourself being so hungry for knowledge....Thats how i am.

    I hope i have emailed the right person. By the way whoever emailed you and said ''I asked: If the Qur'an really is so special then what's so novel and special?I didn't get an answer. (actually I got called an hypocritical hate monger prejudiced ass hole by one person - all for asking)'' .. the person did not know anything about Islam. PLEASE I APOLOGISE ON HIS BEHALF.

    Till next time, i will depart by saying have a fabulous evening and i hope your healthy and wealthy.

    Take care


    '''Sam, I am not telling "Muslims" anything.

    '''I am having a debate on a Sciforums board. This debate seems to me to be relatively futile.

    We are coming from this question at two different angles.

    Me, I'm an atheist, I have no beleif in any of the God(s) and I think there should be a rational scientifically based answer.
    You are a theist, you have a beleif in the Muslim God and maintain all other Gods are delusional. You are also a scientist and therefor think there should be a rational scientifically based answer.

    However, without a double blind experiment our prejudices cloud the manner in which we interpret the archaeological data.


    For example. You really think that the Qur'an is somehow the words of God that were put into Mohammad's head and came out of his mouth like a microphone. Me, I think the Qur'an, because it is 70% identical to an adjacent Middle Eastern tribe's book, it is simply a copy of that work blended with Arab myths.



    This is a summary of how I seem to see things. Maybe I am wrong? Maybe I am stressed from working and it just seems this way but this is how it seems to me.

    I said Slavery is wrong - you said it's fine if they are POWs.
    I said war of aggression is wrong - you said it is justified.
    I said murder is wrong and asked if Mohammad personally killed anyone, I didn't get an answer.
    I asked: If the Qur'an really is so special then what's so novel and special?I didn't get an answer. (actually I got called an hypocritical hate monger prejudiced ass hole by one person - all for asking)
    I asked when was the Qur'an written? I didn't get an answer.
    I asked who were the people that wrote the Qur'an? I didn't get an answer.
    I asked which parts where written by whom? I didn't get an answer.
    I asked why the oldest Qur'an found are different than the modern Qur'an. I didn't get an answer.
    I asked what happened to the Jewish tribes that were in KSA? I didn't get an answer although I think they were all converted by the sword or killed.

    We also discussed our opinions on polygamy. I said it's sick. You seemed to agree. But, then religion kicked in and you said well Mohammad is different so it is actually OK.

    To imagine how that poor young girl was married to a 50+ year old man who hears voices in his head, I said freaks me out, like a sick feeling and shutter, I said he could have adopted her you said it's fine he took her as another wife.

    In an attempt to measure novelty and philosophy I compared the massive changes brought about by the Communist manifesto with those brought about by Mohammadism. Communism in a VERY short period of time eliminated polygamy, made slavery illegal and elevated women to the equal legal status of a man. In Mohammadism Slavery was institutionalized and practiced for 1400 years, polygamy is rife and women are not legally the same as a man in many, if not most, Islamic countries. To you this says nothing about the two life philosophies?

    These debates roll like water off the back of a duck. The reasons are there is no reasoning. Your underlying premise is there is a God and he used a human named Mohammad as a loud speaker and that is that and mine is there is no God and Mohammad, if he even hear a voice, got someone to copy the nearby peoples religous beliefs and blend it with theres and that is that.


    For now we are prejudiced and so some of these debates seem futile ..

    I see things like this:

    The Babylonians copied myths from the Sumerians.
    The Jews copied myths from the Babylonians (ex Gilgamesh).
    The Greeks copied myths from the Egyptians.
    The Xians copied myths from the Greek Jews.
    The Romans copied myths from the Greeks.
    The Muslims copied myths from the Jews.
    The Baha'i' copied myths from the Muslims.
    The Buddhist copied myths from the Hindu.
    The Zoroastrians copied myths from the Hindu.

    You'd probably agree with everything except that the Muslims did not copy their myths. Mohammad heard a voice from an angle relaying a message from a God and this message was special because it cleared up all these copying mistakes and then somehow at sometime by whomever it became the perfect book and therefor I am not going to die but I get to live after I die.



    Well, sometimes it's just seems we are going no where and I am probably pissing you off so I'd rather just say screw it than conitnue to make you peeved.


    Michael


    Lastly, for what it's worth - these are the answers I got from some ex-Muslim friends that are inclined to talk about religion and history.

    Did Mohammad personally killed anyone? My buddy says yes he most definitely killed many people.

    Is there anything at all that is novel in the Qur'an? My buddy said outside of saying Mohammad is the Last messenger no, it's copies of Zoroastrian, Xian, Jewish and Arabian myths - many parts of the Qur'an are older than the Qur'an.

    When was the Qur'an written? My buddy said different parts where written by different people at different times.

    Who wrote the Qur'an? My buddy said that most of it was written by a Persian Zoroastrian and Ethiopian Xian priest.

    Which parts where written by whom? My buddy said that the classic Zoroastrians parts, such as the sun setting in a muddy spring, where copiled by the Persian while the Jewish and Christian parts where compiled by the Ethiopian though the different parts were written by different people are folk stories. They would ask Mohammad to memorize over and over specific passages and together all three would pretend it was a "revelation". Sometimes Mohammad would have to have a new revelation because he forgot a bit or they decided it would be better to say it a different way.

    Why are the oldest Qur'an different than the modern Qur'an? My buddy said it is because the Qur'an has changed over time and thus are different but not by very mucyh. He mentioned that even modern Qur'an have a few different Arabic words depending on the country you buy it in (ex: Morocco versus Indonesia).


    What happened to the Jewish tribes that were in KSA? My buddy said Mohammad led an army and killed them and he even took a Jews woman whose husband had just been murdered for sex. Kind of sad and sick to me, but I'm sure it's fine and I'm just weird like that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2009
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,285
    Human's are animals SAM.

    Evolution is not a ladder.

    I'm greatly looking forward to world-wide Gattaca style population genetics. Then maybe we will be able to scientifically prove why the critical numbers of people have not emerged in various populations to create modern secular democracies OR then we take the whole: It's all somebody else's fault hypothesis and re measure. I'm thinking the secular rule genes are down regulated in favor for theocratic rule. Dictators simply replace Priests. It's been that way for millennial. I mean, hell, even Mo was really just another war lord dictator smashing up statues and stuff.
     
  8. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    Clearly you don't know how evolution works.
     
  9. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Then the entire premise is irrelevant, isn't it?

    Unless he is claiming that the religious have some advantage that animals and atheists don't.

    If you follow his assumption that imagination and religion are both unique to humans and hence necessarily follow one from the other. Except in atheists presumably, where he can show a lack of both?

    No I am pointing out that this is not how evolution works.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  10. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    Are you aware of the term 'genetic diversity' ?
     
  11. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Are you aware of the term that if correlation is causation then atheists have no imah-gination?
     
  12. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    Referring to ?
     
  13. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Tell me, as an atheist, which of these following uniquely human religious characteristics do you lack?

     
  14. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    What don't you understand about the word 'could' ?
     
  15. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Okay, which of the following uniquely human characteristics which allow theists to "do" religion could you lack?
     
  16. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    Allah almost certainly does not exist.

    [youtube]gGpNhBPYNfs[/youtube]
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2009
  17. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    lol :wallbang:

    Which of the uniquely human characteristics which allow humans to "do" Chinese language could you lack?

    The question makes no sense.
     
  18. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Exactly, thank you.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  19. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    I don't think you understand.

    The question should have been:
    "Okay, which of the following uniquely human characteristics which allow humans to "do" religion do you lack? "

    Answer: none
     
  20. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    So you're religious?
     
  21. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    No. Do you speak Chinese ?
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    No, because I never learned it. But I can "divine the feelings and intentions of other people" who speak Chinese. I also have" "imagination, memory and "theory of mind" – the recognition that other people and living things can have their own thoughts and intentions."

    All of which apparently make me religious.
     
  23. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    Why ?
     

Share This Page