Big bang a black hole?

[eddie23]

I mentioned this in an earlier thread, and it seemed some one wanted it as a seperate thread so here goes.

If all the mass of the universe was at a single point just before the big bang, wouldnt this in essence be a black hole?
There would not have been a singularity because there would not have been anything to suck in.

I dont know the math on this but it seems possible to me.

[nietzschefan]

I think so too. It would be something a little "more" that just a black hole, but essentially the same kind of general concept. Big Crunch of a blackhole then a big bang of a quasar-like event.

Some one more knowledgeable on the subject is about to come in, call us philistines and leave without explanation, I predict.

[eddie23]

lol.

I was also thinking that it could be possible for the Big bang to have been more like a machine gun.
Bang then crunch then bang then crunch. Starting off very small and very fast until it got larger and slower.

I dont think im explaining this right.

[cosmictraveler]

But black holes are always destructive in nature, "eating" anything and everything that they are near. I don't think it could be a black hole knowing this about them. It could be a white hole though.


In astrophysics, a white hole is the theoretical time reversal of a black hole. While a black hole acts as a vacuum, drawing in any matter that crosses the event horizon, a white hole acts as a source that ejects matter from its event horizon. The sign of the acceleration is invariant under time reversal, so both black and white holes attract matter. The only potential difference between them is in the behavior at the horizon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hole

[eddie23]

But black holes are always destructive in nature, "eating" anything and everything that they are near. I don't think it could be a black hole knowing this about them. It could be a white hole though.


In astrophysics, a white hole is the theoretical time reversal of a black hole. While a black hole acts as a vacuum, drawing in any matter that crosses the event horizon, a white hole acts as a source that ejects matter from its event horizon. The sign of the acceleration is invariant under time reversal, so both black and white holes attract matter. The only potential difference between them is in the behavior at the horizon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hole

Has any one ever found a white hole or are they just theoretical?

[eddie23]

would it be too out of bounds to suggest that all the mass of the universe could cause an overload as it were. and cause the black hole to explode?

[cosmictraveler]

Theoretical so far but it is something to ponder isn't it.

[BenTheMan]

I thought I explained this to...someone?

Anyway, how do you define a black hole?

[eddie23]

Theoretical so far but it is something to ponder isn't it.

Yes it is.
Tends to sound a bit like the wormhole theories.
Stuff goes in the black hole and out the other side somewhere else in the universe.

[Uno Hoo]

Once upon a time, a famous professional publishing physicist wrote a book. In the peer reviewed book, he disclosed that calculations showed that the visible universe, considering proven matter, not speculative dork matter, contained enough mass, therefore enough density of mass, therefore enough gravity intensity, to be qualified as a black hole.

So, we are all living in the midst of a black hole, according to the famous, peer reviewed, professional, publishing physicist.

If we are now living in a black hole, then we must have, logically, been, living in a black hole for a long time.

[eddie23]

But black holes are always destructive in nature, "eating" anything and everything that they are near. I don't think it could be a black hole knowing this about them. It could be a white hole though.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_hole

Is there no limit to what they can"eat".
Seems to me once they reach a critical point where they have taken in too much matter they would explode...or .. something I dont know.

[cosmictraveler]

Is there no limit to what they can"eat".
Seems to me once they reach a critical point where they have taken in too much matter they would explode...or .. something I dont know.

They do explode, that is called an "Ultra Nova".

[eddie23]

so the big bang could have been a realy large ultra nova!
cool.

[stateofmind]

Once upon a time, a famous professional publishing physicist wrote a book. In the peer reviewed book, he disclosed that calculations showed that the visible universe, considering proven matter, not speculative dork matter, contained enough mass, therefore enough density of mass, therefore enough gravity intensity, to be qualified as a black hole.

So, we are all living in the midst of a black hole, according to the famous, peer reviewed, professional, publishing physicist.

If we are now living in a black hole, then we must have, logically, been, living in a black hole for a long time.

Could the physicist you're talking about be Nassim Haramein by chance?!?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...99791256390335 - it's long but totally worth it!!

[BenTheMan]

so the big bang could have been a realy large ultra nova!
cool.

Ugh. NO!

[cosmictraveler]

so the big bang could have been a realy large ultra nova!
cool.

I agree with Ben also, it wasn't.

[Saquist]

I mentioned this in an earlier thread, and it seemed some one wanted it as a seperate thread so here goes.

If all the mass of the universe was at a single point just before the big bang, wouldnt this in essence be a black hole?
There would not have been a singularity because there would not have been anything to suck in.

I dont know the math on this but it seems possible to me.

There isn't even proof of the big bang any more. What we thought we saw we did not see.

[quantum_wave]

I mentioned this in an earlier thread, and it seemed some one wanted it as a seperate thread so here goes.

If all the mass of the universe was at a single point just before the big bang, wouldnt this in essence be a black hole?
There would not have been a singularity because there would not have been anything to suck in.

I dont know the math on this but it seems possible to me.

Hi Eddie23. You may remember my needless disclaimer Anything I post that is not backed up with evidence or links is my personal speculation. Usually I speculate about areas of physics and cosmology beyond where peer reviewed theory has already taken us. My speculations are ideas and not theory, and I have no suggested means of testing them at the current state of technological advancement. They are classified as protoscience as distinguished from pseudoscience (non science) because they have a basis in science and pass the test of being responsible and reasonable ideas that do not violate proved science.

It seems to me that the subject matter of your thread is a good reason to restate that disclaimer.

The idea of a big crunch preceding our Big Bang cannot be ruled out and it would give us an alternative to the zero volume infinitely dense point in space that you mention. The size of a big crunch capable of containing all of the energy released at our Big Bang would not have to be point sized and if there was a preceding big crunch I would expect it to have had some dimensions though I don't have any particular volume in mind. Maybe the size of a small moon? Who knows what the volume of our universe would be in the dense dark energy state?

Let's say for a moment that it is true that a big crunch (maybe it could be called an ultimate black hole) preceded our Big Bang. There would have been some physics going on inside the crunch that caused it to burst into an expanding ball of energy. This would have to be unknown physics since there is no way to experiment with the maximum energy density that would have to exist inside such a crunch.

One possibility is that when the energy density inside a growing black hole that reaches the status of a big crunch at critical density, the matter inside the crunch might no longer function as matter. If we say that gravity is associated with mass, and if mass no longer functions at densities beyond that critical density, then the gravity holding the energy at such high density inside the crunch would begin to decline. At some point the potential energy generated by the extreme compression of gravity in the crunch would exceed the declining gravitational force holding the crunch together and the trapped energy would be released into expansion giving birth to our expanding universe.

There are other possibilities of course, but critical capacity of a big crunch triggering a big burst is my personal favorite.

[eddie23]

Yes Q this is a very good thread for your disclaimer.
Since I started the thread off with a big what if.

[Betrayer0fHope]

Yes it is.
Tends to sound a bit like the wormhole theories.
Stuff goes in the black hole and out the other side somewhere else in the universe.

Not necessarily the same "uni"verse.