Rational Creationism

There are only 2 rational explanations for how God created the Universe.

Option #1.

Around 14 billion years ago God created the Universe - He did it using physical processes and set all of the physical laws and rules in place for it to work just fine without him.
He took a break for a few tens of billions of years and sat back and did nothing while he waited for life to emerge, and then evolve into us.
Once we arrived he then decided that the most important things to tell us about were who we should insert our penises into (or who should / shouldn't insert them into us) that we couln't eat pork, that we could eat pork, that we could eat beef, that we couldn't eat beef, that murder and genocide was ok, that murder and genocide wasn't ok and that we had to beleive in him (all those years by himself must have sent him a little funny)
He was less interested in whether we are good people or not - that's why Ghandi is burning in hell right now - poor sap beleived in the wrong god - In contrast Rush Limbaugh, Don Rumsfeld, Ted Haggard, and Georgew W Bush will be welcomed. despite being evil f**ks.
He spent a couple of thousand years doing miracles for a bunch of sheep herders in the desert, but stopped abruptly around 2000 years ago - never to be heard of in his miraculous ways since except for the occasional appearance in eggplants, cinnamon buns, and grilled cheese sandwiches.

Option 2.

Around 6 thousand years ago God created the entire universe in 6 days - however he created it to look much older - He created: a background radiation and universal expansion that made the universe look like it had expanded from a single point around 14 billions years ago. stars tens of thousands of light years away were created with light already reaching this planet with the wavelengths red-shifting in the exact manner that they would if in fact they had been travelling through spave for tens of thousands of years - radioactive isotopes were created already partially decayed so as to look as if they were millions or billions of years old. Life was created whole and complex, but with an inbuilt ability to evolve that can be observed in small timescles by human beings, and in a taxonomical heirarchy that by itself looked exactly like it was conclusive proof of common descent.
He then gave us a bunch of rules that were mostly to do with what we should and should not do with out genitalia - and cared little about whether we were moral or ethical just so long as we beleived he existed.
Then about 2 thousand years later he realised he'd f**ked up - so he got one family - made them build a really big boat - provided the boat builder with aquaruims, electric lighting, and sophisticated microscopy equipment so he could save all of the marine and aquatic animals, along with all of the microscopic animals - as well as a few of each species of land animals. Then he killed everything else out sidethe boat in a flood and left the boat floating around for a year.
During this year -using his purple wand and hairy sack of magic - and out of sight deep under the ocean - he broke apart all of the continents of the world, and laid down sedimentary rock formation that were made to look like they had formed over millions of years by micro-organisms - he striped the seabed with rocks of alternating strength magnetic fields to make it look like they had been laid down over millions of years through numerous polar shifts, and topped them with a layer of sediment that was very thin at the spreading centre and very thick at the edge -so again it looked like this was the result of a natural process that had taken aeons.

Just for good measure he buried in a sequence of simple to complex a whole bunch of animals that had never existed in the sediments he'd laid down and sprinkled a bunch of partially decayed radioactive isotopes in case any enquiring human found them and mistook them for something that had been alive during the past few thousand years.

when the boat finally landed, all of the marsupials and monotremes jumped onto the back of a giant kangaroo which them proceeded to hop all the way to australia from the middle east in a couiple of days - the big hop between south east asia and the austalian continent was sadly too much for the giant kangaroo and it died and became extinct through fatigue as soon as it arrived, but it died happy in the knowledge that allmmarsupials and monotremes now had a continent all to themselves and none of them had died on the way and left any evidence of the long journey thay had taken.

In short God covered his tracks and made it all look natural - his job was such a masterstoke that even 4000 years later all but a few really astute humans have been completely fooled by this evidence.

Now - somebody please help me - I can't figure out which of the two is more rational - the person with the best answer gets to convert me

 

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I see you have really thought deeply about the subject, choosing outstanding key examples for your argument.....

 

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thanks LG - I did my best to highlight the main points of creationist / fundaligionist lunacy in the post.

But can you work out what the sub-text is? do you know what I am really trying to say

 

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perhaps that God is existence itself and by that, then creation makes real sense.

why didn't someone think of that before?

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and why...WHY should this matter to you?

 

yes

that you are not interested in discussing the topic but rather have a greater interest in caricaturing religion

 

wrong - that stuff was just becuase the absurd contradictions of scripture that seep into religious practice invite it - and for the lulz of course - no there really is a message here - try again.

 

actually no

you re-state your position quite clearly, in italics

 

Like I said - that stuff was put in just for the fun of it - if that's all you are capable of walking away with after reading that then that's fine .

However there is a message in there for creationists and other assorted types of fundaligionist that may help them to gain an appreciation for the physical observable universe, and the ways that we look at it, that they had hitherto missed.

I'll give you a clue - what is it that I am trying to say when I document in the fashion of a parody the ridiculous lengths God goes to to hide his divine hand in process like the creation of the universe, evolution, geology etc ?

 

Pretty hard to prove the unprovable. If God did exist, you'd think science would have came up with that conclusion a long time ago.

Christians have done a pretty good job dressing up Creationism and calling it Intelligent Design.

If there is an Intelligent Designer, he's going a pretty good job keeping things to him/her/itself.

 

You would expect researching with the senses for a long time to reveal something that is beyond the senses?
.

Or alternatively, we are entertaining a remarkably small world view by demanding that all knowable things be discernible by the empirical methods

 

Looks like you figured it out. Well done.

If the universe was the result of some form of supernatural creation, it was created in such a way as to be indistinguishable (by humans anyway) from a universe with god/a creator completely absent from it.

 

I'm not sure what premises you are working with to suggest that this world is indistinguishable from a universe with an absent/non-existent god

 

exactly the same ones as you apparently - when we use our senses and empirical evidence / studies we find no god - only nature.

I'm making no comment as to the existence (or not) of god - merely agreeing with you that in all the places we are able to look (in a physical sense) he is absent

 

I take it you are not a big fan of the teleological argument?

 

No - order arises through the complex interplay of often chaotic forces, and can fall apart much too easily for it to be designed - design would incorporate redundancy - nature rarely does

either way, even if we are very very very generous with what constitutes order and design in nature we have only the tiniest allusion to design - way too weak a significance to attribute a creator to it - nature governed by natural processes is a better explanation by several thoiusand orders of magnitude.
Therefore no apparent god.

I'm not neccesarily saying there is no god - just that he's nowhere to be found in nature - perhaps there is somewhere else to look though - I dunno

 

I am not sure I follow?
What requirement is there for things to be designed so they don't fall apart?
What is the requirement of design to include redundancy?
(actually I am not even sure what you mean by the word redundancy in regards to design...)

 

he just wanted it to be all about him? is that what your sayong

 

because people are being forced to think this way and Atheists are frowned upon in this elder controlled society!

 

on second thoughts nature (biology at least) does have redundancy built into it - its a process called evolution - enabling life to persist throughout drastic environmental changes and across highly variable environmental clines - of course we know intelligence is absent from evolution so the conclusion is still the same - teleology is wishful thinking