Hi, I'm an atheist and am really pretty ignorant about religion but I am curious to understand what is so great about Heaven. Could someone please explain why I would want to go there because it seems to me that the entrance exam precludes anyone having an enjoyable time unless you are either a) totally self-centered, or b) care only about God. For example, I only really love my immediate family. To be honest I don't really even meet many other people in my line of work. So, let's say I get into Heaven (unlikely yes), only to find that my wife didn't quite make the grade. Am I supposed to believe that I am supposed to spend the rest of eternity being over the moon and in a state of bliss without the closest friend I have? Okay, well let's assume she gets in so it's not a problem and for a while we are nice and happy. Then a few years down the road her brother (back on good old earth) gets in a car crash and unfortunately due to his philandering ways when he was in his early 20's doesn't pass the muster with Saint Peter. My wife sinks into a inconsolable depression at never being able to see him again. This of course has a nasty effect on our own relationship and we start to drift apart (how sad). Pretty soon, Heaven seems more and more like Hell to the both of us. But okay, let's assume all our best mates get in - Yay! Well back on earth I really liked listening to Led Zeppelin. It turns out that the powers that be up in nice-town consider this inappropriate so again a small piece of what makes me blissful is stripped away. It also turns out there isn't the latest Intel Core-i7 machines and getting copies of the latest version of Windows is a real pain in the ass. Not to mention there isn't even a power station because nobody wants to work as they are too busy having a good-ol-time. Frustration begins to mount and everyone starts getting pretty damn snippy with each other. I don't even want to start talking about the fact that all the "good" people from the first century AD will be up there bitching and moaning at how all the new people have stupid haircuts and don't pay enough respect to their elders like back in their day. My Conclusion... The only way this Heaven idea seems practical is if everyone a) Gives themselves over to God and doesn't give a rats ass about anything/anyone else or b) Is brainwashed as part of the entrance ceremony. In both cases I get to lose my identity which as far as I'm concerned is a piss poor definition of never ending happiness. So, it seems to me that this Heaven thing is totally unworkable from a social perspective. Yes it sounds like a good idea but assuming we retain some form of our earthbound self then in a short amount of time everyone would be at each others throats. On the other hand, if we don't remember/care about earthly things then I am no longer me so you may as well send up a robotic stooge to take my place. Perhaps the only positive thing I can think of is that Heaven might be better than the proposed alternative. That said I think a better name would be Hellaven. Yes, I know my arguments are naively simplistic but I would appreciate some perspective on how workable Heaven is other than the stock "You cannot begin to comprehend how God works" answer. thanks
But I don't want to live forever! I want to be dead, that way I don't have to always be doing things after death. There is no "heaven" it is only a myth made up to make us feel better about what happens to humans when they die or their loved ones.
Yes, when you start thinking about it. But instinctively you want to live. If I were to push your head under water you'd fight to get free.
Well if you are wanting to take Mans Value system to the here-after ..it's the place Streets of Gold, Mansions, and jeweled walls.... what more do you ? Islam does offer virgins... Mormons have perpetual pregnant wifes , which I'm pretty sure I'd pass on.....:roflmao:
My wife sinks into a inconsolable depression at never being able to see him again Singing " Hosanna In The Highest " should remedy that..:bawl:
In the Bible Jesus teaches that (in his own words) "you must become like children to enter the kingdom of heaven." This is an interesting thing to say - you'd have to change yourself in order to enter. So only a certain type of person is allowed to enter. Could it be that we're already there and that only a certain way of perceiving is capable of appreciating it for what it is? Maybe this is the reason you're not in heaven right now and are asking about it on Sciforums.
I'm an atheist too, but I can't imagine that it would be too difficult to give humans everything they want. A little flush of serotonin is pretty much all it takes. Assuming a God that can see the totality of your mind, it doesn't seem like a challenge.
The Bible teaches that everyone gets a new body, and a popular theory is that no one will recognize each other because everyone is supposed to be purified. Those who choose a sinless life devoted to God will be granted admission and given a life without sin, devoted to God. Everything you do there, it talks about will be for the kingdom. It all sounds a bit dry to me. But, the sights and experience is the draw. If there is a God, there is no doubt that it is a jokester, so it probably would be fun.
It would seem to me that a compassionate god would not be in heaven, where he isn't really needed, but would instead be in hell seeking to aid those in need.
So maybe heave in Never Land Ranch? :bugeye: . Also if you want to think about it figurativey, in the story of Adam and Eve "God" didn't want them to eat from the "tree" which gave knowledge. So maybe he wanted them to be naive, after they ate from the tree, they were kicked from Eden.
No matter what the experience is, the fact that it goes on "forever" makes it a pretty shitty deal. After the first hundred billion years, you won't have dented your existence. An eternity means that you will have every thought an infinite number of times in every order possible. Another hundred billion years go by and you can't even remember the 78 years, on average, that you had on Earth. After another hundred billion years, you don't even know who your family and friends are from back then, because you have met and become attached to so many new people. I think modern vampire films and books do an excellent job of displaying the horror that an eternal existence would be. I have no problem with the fact that I wasn't around during the 1920's and the Renaissance. I have no problem with the idea that I will not celebrate New Year's Eve in 3000. As Enmos pointed out, we have a reflexive desire for survival in the near-term, but we should not let this concoct a philosophy that makes no sense for the long-term.
Why to live for ever and ever for the glory of God, of course. Jeez why would you not want that? Forever and ever and infinity and all that.
I don't know about a), but as for b), that seems more on track. IOW it's not because we are somehow excluded heaven by exterior forces. rather we exclude ourself by being in a state of ignorance that makes the idea of being socialized around the pleasure of god incomprehensible .... meanwhile we are here in the material world as an alternative
