A Short History of the Israeli - Palestinian Conflict: Past Is Prologue

**StrawDog** · 02-12-09, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by GeoffP

???

You were saying?

I am happy to rephrase that to "Palestinian Arabs".

But I will add that the Arabs in the IDF are used in a particular role like opposing other Arabs and driving Bedouin Arabs out of the Negev Desert to Jordan. I think the term "nefarious" applies here.

And shalom to you. You do realize I'm not Jewish, don't you? Just making sure. There's a certain degree of paranoia sometimes - it strikes in the strangest places.

Why would I care if you are Jewish or not? Lets just say ... Peace brother!

**~~CheskiChips~~** · 02-12-09, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by S.A.M.

[citation needed]

Is that how you publish your papers?

I believe the IDF conscripts Druze and the Bedouins, probably to kill them off. Not the "Arabs" which is how they designate the Muslim Palestinians who are not of the Negev

They don't conscript them at all. It's a voluntary service, mostly because they're not fully required to be citizens.

**S.A.M.** · 02-12-09, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by CheskiChips

They don't conscript them at all. It's a voluntary service, mostly because they're not fully required to be citizens.

What does that mean?

**fedr808** · 02-12-09, 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by StrawDog

I am at a loss for words. Apart from the fact that we may have found a new species of unintelligent life.

Hey Straw dog, if i blew up your sister would you punch me or give me your house? Because for some reason you guys think that the latter of the two is a better idea and what me nor any other sane person can figure out is what in your development disturbed your idea of just.

**S.A.M.** · 02-12-09, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by fedr808

Hey Straw dog, if i blew up your sister would you punch me or give me your house? Because for some reason you guys think that the latter of the two is a better idea and what me nor any other sane person can figure out is what in your development disturbed your idea of just.

I'm glad you see the Palestinian point of view. The Irgun were truly vile.

**StrawDog** · 02-12-09, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by fedr808

Hey Straw dog, if i blew up your sister would you punch me or give me your house? Because for some reason you guys think that the latter of the two is a better idea and what me nor any other sane person can figure out is what in your development disturbed your idea of just.

That makes no sense at all. Can you say that in English please?

**Michael** · 02-12-09, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by StrawDog

Moving forward does not equate to invading sovereign nations like Iraq. The Western secular constitutions you speak of are warmongers and history provides the record. Vietnam, Korea, Bay of Pigs, Panama, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Afghanistan, Iraq.

I agree that Americans war. Just like every single people that have lived on the planet earth.

That said, it is my opinion that a well informed secular democratic group of people have a chance of behaving peacefully. That's my opinion. I base it on the idea that I think most people wouldn't murder other people.This is what I believe. I believe that you have to trick people into killing other people. Usually by first labeling the other people as THEM and then someone convincing people that the THEM's deserve to be murdered.
For Example:
THEM Muslims Terrorists.
Or THEM round eyed Yanks.
Or THEM sneaky greedy Jews.
Or THEM polytheistic heretical Arabs.

Then you can get:
Americans to murder Iraqies
OR Japanese to murder Americans
OR Germans to murder Jews
OR Muslims to murder polytheistic Arabs living in Mecca.

In the day of free flowing information I am very hopeful that wars between well educated groups of people will end. Hell we've only harnessed electricity for a few generations and most people on earth probably still don't. We have a ways to go. But I have faith in most humanity.

That aside, I'm not sure of your point? Is it that you feel it is better to use people's naivety and natural inclinations towards superstition to rule over them? You think this is better than letting people rule over themselves? Have you such little regard for humanity?

Sure it's a valid point. One used throughout most of history. Yeah, the Chinese Emperor was revered as the Last Messenger of the Gods. The Prophet if you will. And sure at times China was relatively peaceful - but come on. That's not a better way to live and people certainly didn't live all that great.

Another example could be the worshiping of Augustus as the Prophet and Messenger for the Gods or the Emperor Jimmu in Japan - revered as a God or Mohammad as a messenger for some Arab tribes or Queen Elizabeth as Gods representative here on Earth ... yeah, the little people follow like the sheep they are, but, I have a little more faith that people can rule themselves, so should you.

M

**Michael** · 02-12-09, 06:27 PM

4999 bottles of beer on the wall, 4999 bottles of beer...

**StrawDog** · 02-12-09, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by Michael

I agree that Americans war. Just like every single people that have lived on the planet earth.

Yes.

That said, it is my opinion that a well informed secular democratic group of people have a chance of behaving peacefully. That's my opinion. I base it on the idea that I think most people wouldn't murder other people.This is what I believe.

There are indeed peaceful societies, but "secular" and "democracy" are not necessarily prerequisites, but are more likely to be peaceful.

I believe that you have to trick people into killing other people. Usually by first labeling the other people as THEM and then someone convincing people that the THEM's deserve to be murdered.
For Example:
THEM Muslims Terrorists.
Or THEM round eyed Yanks.
Or THEM sneaky greedy Jews.
Or THEM polytheistic heretical Arabs.

Then you can get:
Americans to murder Iraqies
OR Japanese to murder Americans
OR Germans to murder Jews
OR Muslims to murder polytheistic Arabs living in Mecca.

Propaganda and indoctrination are the tools.

In the day of free flowing information I am very hopeful that wars between well educated groups of people will end. Hell we've only harnessed electricity for a few generations and most people on earth probably still don't. We have a ways to go. But I have faith in most humanity.

Good, I remain hopeful as well.

**CptBork** · 02-12-09, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by S.A.M.

Are the Europeans from Asia? Do people not understand the difference between adopting a culture through immigration and replacing a population group by killing the people and replacing them with your "own" people?

The Turks are not from Europe, and Constantinople is European territory which was taken through barbaric jihadist violence. So they can go ahead and f*ck off back to their own side of the Mediterranean, and take their Kosovar underlings with them. Then once this issue is settled, they (together with Iran and Iraq) can end their occupation of Kurdistan, and pay Armenia compensation plus 100 years' interest for the 1 million innocents they death marched (along with their would-be descendants). Then the Turks can complain all they want about other peoples' wars.

**pjdude1219** · 02-12-09, 08:56 PM

Originally Posted by CptBork

The Turks are not from Europe, and Constantinople is European territory which was taken through barbaric jihadist violence. So they can go ahead and f*ck off back to their own side of the Mediterranean, and take their Kosovar underlings with them. Then once this issue is settled, they (together with Iran and Iraq) can end their occupation of Kurdistan, and pay Armenia compensation plus 100 years' interest for the 1 million innocents they death marched (along with their would-be descendants). Then the Turks can complain all they want about other peoples' wars.

your from a former british colony so where the fuck do get off complaining about people complaining about wars.

**~~CheskiChips~~** · 02-12-09, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by S.A.M.

What does that mean?

Bedoiuns don't have to be citizens to live in Israel in the sense they don't have to serve. They do to make money sometimes.

**~~John99~~** · 02-12-09, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by pjdude1219

your from a former british colony so where the fuck do get off complaining about people complaining about wars.

What does that even mean?

**pjdude1219** · 02-12-09, 09:47 PM

Originally Posted by John99

What does that even mean?

do you not know how to read?

**~~John99~~** · 02-12-09, 09:49 PM

What do you think? That post makes no sense. Maybe you should calm down a little.

**pjdude1219** · 02-12-09, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by John99

What do you think? That post makes no sense. Maybe you should calm down a little.

apparently no you don't

**S.A.M.** · 02-13-09, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by CptBork

The Turks are not from Europe, and Constantinople is European territory which was taken through barbaric jihadist violence. So they can go ahead and f*ck off back to their own side of the Mediterranean, and take their Kosovar underlings with them. Then once this issue is settled, they (together with Iran and Iraq) can end their occupation of Kurdistan, and pay Armenia compensation plus 100 years' interest for the 1 million innocents they death marched (along with their would-be descendants). Then the Turks can complain all they want about other peoples' wars.

The Romans were not native to Turkey. What is interesting is that Kurds, Jews and Turks cluster together genetically, i.e. have a common origin. Where does that put the Jews? Will they "go ahead and f*ck off back to their own side of the Mediterranean" too?

**EntropyAlwaysWins** · 02-13-09, 01:16 AM

Originally Posted by StrawDog

And your point is?

That I'm sick of flame wars maybe?

**GeoffP** · 02-13-09, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by S.A.M.

I bet it does. All them Arabs are interchangeable with each other, eh?

Hehe. "Move those goalposts! No, no, back! Aha! See, Geoff? You missed!" Classic.

Anyway, the link implies a variety of Arabs serve. No citizen is prevented from so doing, and it makes no specifics of which Arabs volunteer. Done and done.

Originally Posted by StrawDog

I am happy to rephrase that to "Palestinian Arabs".

But I will add that the Arabs in the IDF are used in a particular role like opposing other Arabs and driving Bedouin Arabs out of the Negev Desert to Jordan.

Well, I don't know that they are, in point of fact. I know a large number of Bedouins deserted the Arab armies and supported the Israelis in 1948 or something. And, again: Palestinian Arabs are not banned from the IDF. I think my point has been proven.

Why would I care if you are Jewish or not? Lets just say ... Peace brother!

Fair enough; I accept your compliment anyway, of course.

**S.A.M.** · 02-13-09, 01:25 PM

No citizen is prevented from so doing

Are they all citizens? The Bedouin who serve are displaced from their lands (their homeland/villages/tents demolished and not recognised as belonging to them by Israel) and are not "required to be citizens" to serve. They "serve" because they are stripped of their livelihood and homes built on their demolished homes are only available to those with military service. IOW, they are forced to serve to survive. They are also used by Israelis as Judenrat against their own people.