Victorian bushfires

**Asguard** · 02-08-09, 12:14 AM

the death toll is up to 60 now sadly

some good news is that all the endangered species have been evacuated from HEALESVILLE santuary to the melb zoo and that none of the animals remaining have been injured

**James R** · 02-08-09, 12:16 AM

It has been very hot in Adelaide, too, hasn't it Asguard? You tend to get the weather we get, but one day earlier.

**Asguard** · 02-08-09, 12:26 AM

VERY hot recently, quite cool today.

One thing i would like to mention is the amazing work that the police operation "nomad" has done this year especially. Though we had more than a week and a half of over 40C weather we have only really had one small bush fire outside gawler and that is all down to the preventive work that this police unit have done in preventing the fire bugs from starting bush fires.

I was lissioning to a report a couple of days ago which stated that aprox 60% of fires across the country are delibratly lit, yet in SA its down to 10% and its all thanks to the work of operation Nomad.

**Asguard** · 02-08-09, 12:31 AM

make that 65 dead

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...section=justin

**~~copernicus66~~** · 02-08-09, 02:50 AM

It's been scorching up here near Sydney, although not as hot as in Melbourne (thank god).

**Bells** · 02-08-09, 02:59 AM

Glad you came through alright James. Must have been a terrifying night. My cousin was telling us of some of the horror of what he's been seeing since all this started. I still haven't managed to get through to some of my friends who live near Healsville.

It's unbelievable that the death toll is as high as it is. Much worse than Ash Wednesday. At least it's a bit cooler now and hopefully the weather will help put out some of the fires.

**Bells** · 02-08-09, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by Asguard

james and bells my thoughts are with you both. Strange situation to have NSW and victoria on fire and to have queensland almost compleatly under water. My brother lives in whats still concidered the city and yet there was a fire front less than 1.5 km's from his house and to see bendigo (which is a city rather than a town) burning... its unimaginable. Im really glad to hear that both of you are ok

The floods are up north.

And to be honest, we don't really have much of our personal items left to lose after November. It seems we have all experienced horror episodes due to weather recently. And welcome back Asguard.

**Asguard** · 02-08-09, 05:14 AM

thanks bells but im not really back, i just came back to make sure you and james were ok. I have a friend and his wife up in cains and she said that the water was up to her knees when she walks down the street.

the fires are now even worse than the black friday fires. 71 people lost there lives in black friday, the death toll for this fire is up to 84 so far including a channel 9 tv presenter and his wife.

bells i hope your family are ok and the same with yours james. The state just keeps flaring up, there is another fire near my brothers though from the CFA website it apears to be just a small one. More fires around the outer easten skirts of melb and even some small fires near my grandmothers.

Then there are fires in sydney as well and next week it looks like it could be SA's turn when the temps are expected to rise again.

**Bells** · 02-08-09, 06:55 AM

I look at those photos from the fire and I cry. My old home state.

And Brian Naylor.. Such a nice man, as was his wife.

Whole communities completely wiped out with only a few survivors. It's just shocking. My cousin was telling us that he was very lucky since 6 of his neighbours lost their homes yesterday. Friend's in Healsville have lost theirs but are ok.

The utter devastation and the looks of shock on the faces of the people just brings back bad memories for me. And the guy who was trying to get his kids out and the car caught fire with his kids in it.. We were lucky in November that no one lost their lives. This kind of devastation is heartbreaking. I suspect the deathtoll will rise as they gain access to other properties that were destroyed.

**Bells** · 02-08-09, 07:39 AM

The death toll has climbed to 96 and they expect it to get higher..

**Orleander** · 02-08-09, 08:02 AM

Originally Posted by Bells

The death toll has climbed to 96 and they expect it to get higher..

are most of these homeowners who didn't get out in time or who thought they could stop the fire with a garden hose? Or are they firefighters?

**Bells** · 02-08-09, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by Orleander

are most of these homeowners who didn't get out in time or who thought they could stop the fire with a garden hose? Or are they firefighters?

Most of the people killed thus far were basically caught out. From what I can understand, the fire front moved so quickly that there was little to no time to escape. Many were caught in their cars on roads and highways as they tried to get away.. many families perished in cars that way. In one of the worst hit areas, whole towns have been completely obliterated in a matter of minutes.. the few who managed to survive speak of what they describe as a giant fireball hitting the towns, burning everything in its wake.

Then there are those who stayed to try to defend their properties.

Your sarcasm isn't really appreciated Orleander. In situations like this, a garden hose is all you basically have to hose down your house and yourself. They weren't trying to stop a fire with a garden hose. What kind of thing is that to say?

One guy lost his kids when they decided to evacuate as they saw the fire front getting a bit too close and he put his kids in the car, went back into the house to grab something else and returned to find the car was ablaze with his children in it. It literally takes minutes.. you can see the smoke on the horizon and less than 10 minutes later, you're seeing flames hitting your house.. that's how it is in fire storms.

Just like those who tried to escape by car. They probably thought they would have had time. But it moved so quickly that it literally overtook and burnt them in their cars. Then there are the people who would retreat to their local towns for shelter as their properties were threatened, only to have the whole town destroyed in a matter of minutes with zero chance of escape.

My cousin happened to be one of those people who sat on his roof with a hose Orleander and managed to save his home and my family have friends who lost everything and literally escaped with just the clothes on their backs. There are members on this site who also faced this horrendous event, unknowing if they or their properties or loved one's would or will come through this unscathed. So your condescending tone about using fire hoses to stop a bush fire is not really appreciated.

**Asguard** · 02-08-09, 09:28 AM

not to mention its just compleatly wrong as well. After ash wednesday there was a royal commision (i think, may have just been the coronors inquest) into what could have been done to save the lives which were lost and alot of recomendations were made about the preparedness of those who defend there homes. Its alot more than just a garden hose orleander, thinks like fire shields, clearing bush and scrub, weting down the house and filling gutters and putting out embers ect. well one of the former firefighters who went through that moved to NSW and his house was in the path of the sydney bush fires in 2000 (? or was it 2001). His house was the ONLY house in the entire naborhood still undamaged because he was prepared.

Now these people KNEW how to fight, alot of them would have BEEN CFA fire fighters or the families of CFA members. Bush fires are a yearly event in Australia, but this time NOTHING could stop them, they didnt just burn across quickly through the bush but destroyed WHOLE TOWNSHIP.

Bendigo isnt a little country town with houses in the bush ITS A CITY. The Narry warren fires which threatened my brothers house were IN THE CITY OF MELBOURNE itself. He lives in a housing estate for christ sake, ie house blocks all around not bush and it STILL was with in 1.5 Kms of his house.

You are a real moron if you dont think that these people prepare all year to fight these fires. They have proffessonal grade fire fighting equiptment to the point that alot of them even have there own small tanker trucks but there was just nothing anyone could do. The CFA had to abandon alot of homes and townships because even THEY couldnt get near the fire front.

This is no more those peoples fault than the collaps of the WTC was the fault of the people working on the top floor. You are a really sad indervidual some times orleander

**Sciencelovah** · 02-08-09, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Bells

The death toll has climbed to 96 and they expect it to get higher..

I read just now that it is the deadliest fires in Australia's history. I am so sorry for your lost, sending you my deepest condolence for the lost of family, friends, or hometown..

Originally Posted by James R

Looking at the bigger picture again, I challenge the climate change deniers to explain why heat records continue to be broken where I live. Last week we had 4 or 5 days in a row with temperatures in excess of 40 degrees C - another all-time record for the state. The question is: is this summer weather the new normal, given the obvious reality of global warming?

Meanwhile, is there extreme cold weather happening in the Northern hemisphere? If so, could climate change be a factor?

Wish me luck for the next few days. I might need it.

I have been always wondering the cause of unpredictable severe El Niño years (like that in Australia or Chile), whether it is all natural, is there human impact in it, and whether it can be predicted. In case of Australia, according to a source though, "the natural fire regime was altered by the arrival of humans in Australia. Fires became more frequent, and fire-loving species — notably eucalyptus — greatly expanded their range."

Looking at the list of notable bushfire events, apparently it happens more and more frequent for the last 3 years. It is very sad, I can't imagine the horror of being caught by fire

I hope that the situation can be controlled soon, and sustainable solutions can be found.

I am thinking, whether paralel small canals can be built in the dry area including in housing areas nearby to control/slow down any future bush fires. But I assume it would be difficult considering the humidity level there. Alternatively, probably water could be replaced with some other materials, which is not easily burnt (like rocks..?), enough to separate bushes into smaller confined areas.

Btw, welcome back Asguard, thanks for the PMs

**Asguard** · 02-08-09, 10:06 AM

inzomnia firstly im not back. I didnt even intend to be on here so long today but *shrug*. To be honest the only reason i came here was to see if this even rated a mention on here seeing as the ONLY story from australia the yanky news i have been reading recently has reported was a small air crash in darwin a week ago. Nothing on the heat wave across SA, tasie and Vic, nothing on the flooding in queensland and NOTHING on the bush fires.

Secondly alot of these properties have paved buffer zones and heat shielding walls around the house to protect them in high risk area's. Yet they did NOTHING this time, the fires simply burned over them and there was nothing they could do. ALL the country fire services advise that staying in a well prepared house is safe. Not quite as safe as staying in the middle of melbourne but reasonably safe. However recently we have had MASSIVE fires which are unlike ANYTHING the country has ever experianced.

Alot of people blame this on climate change, we arnt ment to have weeks on end of above 40 heat and years without end of extreemly low rainfall (except in queensland ironically enough), others blame DSE (department of sustainablity and enviroment) for the fires. I think the blame laid at DSE is compleatly unfair, they do so much fire management in national parks and state forests but nothing seems to stop them. Basically this is life, the country was MENT to burn but not like this.

My parents told me about ash wednesday, mum especially. I was just a baby in her arms and they lived in the outer suburbs of melbourne and the ash was flying in to their back yard. See the problem isnt the fire itself generally but embers which are blown WELL ahead of the fire, kms ahead alot of the time. The fires are able to jump 4 lane freeways like the prince's and hume freeways for christ sake. Little barriers on the ground will make no difference. About the ONLY thing we could do to stop them is to move EVERYONE into the major cities and build km high walls around them like castles in medevil eroupe.

**StrawDog** · 02-08-09, 02:46 PM

I am glad you are OK James R.

**Trippy** · 02-08-09, 04:58 PM

James, Bells, and Asguard.

Glad to see the three of you are okay.

I can't imagine what things are like over there, they'vre been bad enough over here.

Yesterday as eerie, couldn't even see the sun (we had a Norwester blowing, and that was part of it) but the smoke in the air gave everything this eerie yellow hue. At about 4pm last night, things had reached the point where the automatic night lights had started coming on, and we had to turn the inside lights on.

And the moon lastnight (when it was visibile) was spectacular a copper colour, managed to get some photos, if anyone's interested.

Just as a general update 146 dead, and they're still owrking towards some of the worst hit areas.

Also, I notice in the news this morning that our Prime Minister is going to be mobilizing at least 100 fire fighters in the next 24-48 hours and sending them over to help out.

Edit: I also note that out authorities are bracing themselves for fires here, and that the australian authorities believe that some of the fires have been started deliberately.

**Orleander** · 02-08-09, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Bells

....Your sarcasm isn't really appreciated Orleander. In situations like this, a garden hose is all you basically have to hose down your house and yourself. They weren't trying to stop a fire with a garden hose. What kind of thing is that to say?

....

what sarcasm??

Someone else mentioned garden hoses, so I figured they were using garden hoses. Its what I've seen people here in the US using. They soak everything down with it while digging a fire break around the house. If people there have better equipment then they do here, well then...I didn't know that.