The Triple Whammy of Suffering

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by swarm, Jan 30, 2009.

  1. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    Religion is a tripple whammy of suffering based on...

    Religious Faith - the purposeful choosing of ignorance over knowledge.
    Heavens - The ultimate imaginary object of lust
    Hells - The ultimate imaginary object of fear

    It bases these on an "epistomology" based on the primacy of authority over investigation and dogma over fact.
     
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  3. draqon Banned Banned

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    how is faith and religious faith different?
     
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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    You're preaching, swarm.

    Do you have a question or a point of discussion?
     
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  7. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    swarm,

    I think it depends on the religion. Buddhism may be a bit different.

    Overall I agree that monotheistic belief is base, but, it also has some other things that may be good. For example, there is no need to seek revenge or hold a grudge against so and so because they are going to hell (God will judge them). I don't know anyone who really thinks (or worries) they are going to go to hell (sure maybe it's a good scare for kids but adults???)
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2009
  8. Michael 歌舞伎 Valued Senior Member

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    To qualify the statement on Buddhism. Buddhist meditation appears to up regulate neurogenesis in the hippocampus physically strengthening the neural limbic system and increasing overall sense of well being. Given that many, maybe most, people need superstition to get by in life, I'd say this is a pretty good benefit in Buddhist belief.
     
  9. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    Ordinary faith is about things concerning which you have sufficient understanding for drawing reasonable conclusions.

    So it might not be a given that a gambler will lose and particular time they gamble, but I have great faith that the house is not losing in the long run.
     
  10. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    The core Buddhist practices avoid religious faith, heaven and hell.

    Like meditation, its about things which have direct application, being compassionate, living morally, sharpening your mind. In fact one is admonished not to take things on faith but to verify them personally first and make sure they work and are reasonable.
     
  11. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    not sure what heaven has to do with (imaginary) lust (unless you are purposefully choosing ignorance over knowledge in your investigation on the subject).

    Do you mean as opposed to an object of lust based in reality?

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    but anyway

    no need to look so afar for a triple whammy of suffering

    we have it right here

    in the form of
    1. suffering caused by natural phenomena (earthquakes, floods, etc)
    2. suffering caused by one's body and mind
    3. suffering caused by the bodies of other living entities (from tax agents to mosquitoes)
     
  12. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    It is falsely protrayed as being the most desirable place to be. In their lust for heaven people will do all manner of dispicable acts to themselves and others.
     
  13. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    actually this material world (with it's triple whammy of suffering as previously mentioned) is falsely portrayed as the most desirable place to be

    so your reasoning is that "anything goes" in the pursuit of a place in the spiritual world?
     
  14. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    No it is rightly portrayed as the place we are.

    My reasoning is that imaginary heavens aren't worth the breath wasted on them.
     
  15. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    swarm
    yes
    smack bang in the thick of illusion
    that's fine but it still doesn't throw any light on your ambiguous suggestions of "anything goes"
     
  16. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    Don't make me laugh.

    I never made any such suggestion. Its your nonsense, you defend it.
     
  17. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    In their lust for heaven people will do all manner of dispicable acts to themselves and others.


    well?

    (being prone to forgetfulness is but one symptom of illusion)
    :shrug:
     
  18. munty13 Registered Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, people will always suffer. Buddha was big on that. Buddhists still suffer. We all suffer. People don't suffer from religion. People suffer under the human condition.
     
  19. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    Well what? What does this have to do with your claim that "anything goes?"

    As for my claim, the inquisition seems sufficient.
     
  20. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    Actually that is not what Buddhism teaches, though many, even Buddhists get confused on this issue. Here is the full deal...


    The Nature of Suffering (Dukkha):
    "This is the noble truth of suffering: birth is suffering, aging is suffering, illness is suffering, death is suffering; sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief and despair are suffering; union with what is displeasing is suffering; separation from what is pleasing is suffering; not to get what one wants is suffering; in brief, the five aggregates subject to clinging are suffering."

    Suffering's Origin (Samudaya):
    "This is the noble truth of the origin of suffering: it is this craving which leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there, that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination."

    Suffering's Cessation (Nirodha):
    "This is the noble truth of the cessation of suffering: it is the remainderless fading away and cessation of that same craving, the giving up and relinquishing of it, freedom from it, nonreliance on it."

    The Way (Mārga) Leading to the Cessation of Suffering:
    "This is the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering: it is the Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths

    The intent of the eightfold path is to develop sila/morality, pranna/wisdom and samadhi/attention and focus. While developing these there are five precepts which are recommended to help keep one out of trouble: abstain from harming others, lying, stealing, abusing sex, and abusing intoxicants.

    To sum up, the carrot of enlightenment is the cessation of suffering.
     
  21. lightgigantic Banned Banned

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    "all manner of despicable acts" doesn't seem to have exclusive demands

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    And the inquisition, eh?
    Strange choice of ecclesiastical bodies to use as a bench mark for analyzing "the means of getting into heaven" (but then, you being the type of atheist that you are, perhaps not).

    I don't know what sort of congregational activities you have participated in where they used the example of the inquisition to inspire people to be more vigilant in the pursuit of spiritual ideals.

    Geez

    The catholic church even publically apologized for the activities of the inquisition.

    Its kind of like someone discussing some wayward political leader (stalin, hitler, pol pot, etc) as a key for a comprehensive argument for anarchy or a world without any form of political rule.

    Just listening to this makes me feel like I am dealing with a teenager with unresolved anger issues ...

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  22. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    Oh we could go with the massacre of xtians in Japan or the massacre of buddhists in China and so on there is plenty of universal "love" for every one.

    They are as good as any. And what type of atheist do you think I am any way?

    The seeds of the inquisition have been in every church I've been too.

    "Oops! Sorry about all the murder and torture. Sorry about the dark ages. Sorry about persecuting any one who speaks for the truth or worships differently. We promise not to do it again until we seize power."

    That's ok. I often feel like I'm dealing with a delusional idiot.
     
  23. StrangerInAStrangeLand SubQuantum Mechanic Valued Senior Member

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    It is also based on faith that those thought to be evil will suffer horribly.
     

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