Moon "thout-esperiment".!!!

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by cluelusshusbund, Jan 30, 2009.

  1. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    (Pasture Timmy)
    Say the earf sudenly disapeared... as the moon orbits the sun... woud the sam side of the moon always face the sun like it did earf.???
     
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  3. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    If it were up your ass you'd know!

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  5. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Do you mean "the earth", "would", "same", "earth"?

    The answer to your question is: no.
     
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  7. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    cosmictraveler
    If it were up your ass you'd know!


     
  8. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    James R;2154349]
    The answer to your question is: no.


     
  9. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

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    Who's this Pasture Timmy dude?

    Maybe, but I think it would take a long time.

    Is your keyboard working properly?
     
  10. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    (Pasture Timmy)
    I am almos 60 an i started postin on "webtv" about 10 year ago an my real name is Tim... an somone started callin me Timmy... an sinse i had jus joined my bosses new church "NACA" (New Age Christan Atheist) i desided to becom Pasture Timmy... an yes my keybord is only 3 weeks old an works fine.!!!

    PS
    ] know i have grammer an spellin issues... som of it is bad habit an som is dew to lack of educaton an medical issues... ect.!!!

    I see som of you have met Ken Dine on the moon rotaton issue... an about 10 years ago he helped me learn how to use the webtv (its not a computer... its a simple to operate device that makes much of the internet accessible).!!!
     
  11. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Are you duendy?
     
  12. John99 Banned Banned

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    sock puppet?
     
  13. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, this is a sock puppet.
     
  14. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    (Pasture Timmy)
    To you an John... no i am not a sock puppet of "duendy"(i dont know who duendy is)... an these 13 posts ive made is the only time ive ever posted here.!!!
     
  15. BenTheMan Dr. of Physics, Prof. of Love Valued Senior Member

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    Ummm... is this Ham?
     
  16. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    No i ant Ham... im a vegetarian

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    PS
    To All... im new to this groop... i joined jus after Chrismus.!!!
     
  17. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    Pasture Timmy said (after a little help with the typing/ spelling):
    “... I suppose the moon would eventually become tidal-locked with the sun and then it would always show the same side to the sun.!!! …”

    Then James R replied:
    The Earth makes less gravitational force on the moon than the sun* does but the gradient of the Earth's gravity field is much stronger due to gradient falling off as inverse cube, not inverse square. (I think you already know all this. - This information for others who do not.)

    Thus, unless some massive body frees the moon from the Earth's gravitational gradient the much weaker solar gradient will NEVER get the moon to spin only 360 degrees once per year or solar orbit (i.e. be locked with same face turned to the sun instead of the more rapid 360 spin in about 28 days.)

    I will not count this as your fourth error - you’re saved by the "Maybe" and vagueness of "long time".

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    ------------------
    *Moon thus really is orbit about the sun but appears to orbit the Earth from our POV. To avoid argument I admit that it is really the Earth / Moon mass center that is in near circular, but elliptical** orbit about the sun, but both are ALWAYS curving towards the sun as they go around the sun. – That is why I claim each can be considered to be in a nearly circular orbits about the sun with nearly the same period. (Neither orbit exactly closes on its self so even defining the exact period is a little vague or arbitrary.)

    **Minor distortion of the ellipse by Jupiter etc. being ignored.
     
  18. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Hi Billy T...
    The queston was... "Say the earf sudenly disapeared... as the moon orbits the sun... woud the sam side of the moon always face the sun like it did earf.???"

    It woud take a long time... but the earf sudenliy disapearin woud free the moon from earfs gravity which woud lead to the moon eventualy beomin tidal locked to the sun.!!!
     
  19. Billy T Use Sugar Cane Alcohol car Fuel Valued Senior Member

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    I did not understand that was the question. James R's answer is quite correct.

    Even though currently moon is spinning at only one revolution per ~28 days that is a lot of angular momentum to shed to get down to one 360 rotation in 365+ days. So yes it would take a long time and maybe never happen.

    Probably the sun would go red giant and then some of the outer gasses could help with "frictional drag" to slow the spin of the moon. I used quotes as it is a strange type of "atomic friction" (molecule by molecule). The moon would be "plowing" thru the expanding solar gas and thus on the leading edge of its orbit picking up more mass than on the trailing edge. This differential would make a spin retarding torque that would aid the standard tidal torque.

    Just acquiring more mass (the solar "blow by" gases and random angular momentum cosmic dust and meteors) that have net zero angular moment that must gain momentum also slows the moon spin, but this effect reduces as the spin slows. The "frictional mass differential" effect does not go to zero with the moon spin. If strong enough, it might continue and even reverse the spin direction, but of course it is also making the moon orbit spiral into towards the sun, like a Earth satellite does as it starts to fly thru the thin high atmosphere. I do not have any idea which wins this race (stop the spin or hit the sun first)

    Also the solar gases blowing by the moon would be ionized and may drag some magnetic field with them. The electrical conductivity of the moon is not zero nor uniform so as it spins in this weak magnetic field there could be some slight dissipation - The energy being dissipated comes from the spin kinetic energy.

    So there are at least three mechanisms to reduce the current angular momentum, but I have my doubts (Just guessing of course) that they will be strong enough to slow the moon spin down to one turn per orbit. If they fail it will be a very long time before the tidal torque on the residual dwarf star that was core part the sun (much smaller) can finish the job. Dark energy may be separating the moon from that tiny "dwarf sun" by then also, perhaps "never" is the correct answer.

    SUMMARY: James' short answer was perfect to the question as you state it.

    but perhaps you learned something from my longer one.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2009
  20. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

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    Just so your aware...a Pasture is where cattle are kept. A Pastor is an ordained minister. Big difference...you might want to update that.

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  21. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    I dared not point that out to him..

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  22. MacGyver1968 Fixin' Shit that Ain't Broke Valued Senior Member

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    Yeah..I was trying to be nice. I left out the joke about pastures being covered in bullshit.

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    Pastor Timmy,

    Just so you know, some people come to this board, and intentionally mis-spell (did I just mis-spell "mis-spell"?

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    ) words in an attempt to troll people into flaming them or pretending to be someone else....so this bunch is pretty suspicious of anyone new.

    I suck at spelling to. You spell like I do...phonetically...spelling like it sounds. I just use "Firefox" because it has a built in spell checker. I just type out the word as close as I can get it, and then let the spell checker tell me if I'm right. If I don't get it right, it underlines the word, and you just right click it, and it will give you the correct spelling. Just an FYI.
     
  23. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    O yes it was a good read... but speculaton on milions an billions of years into the future can be endless... but the thred about my esperiment (Evidence for how the moon works) is here an now an i woud like you'r thouts as to what you thank the results of my esperiment was or shud have been.!!!
     

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