Machines that make machines?

Discussion in 'Biology & Genetics' started by Techne, Jan 4, 2009.

  1. Techne Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    211
    An interesting article authored by Antoine Danchin from the Pasteur Institut was recently published and is sure to bring forth much discussion.

    Bacteria as computers making computers
    The abstract:
    The quantum teleportation experiments have demonstrated that information can be viewed as a fundamental irreducible property of physics (informationalism). Information in the sense that energy supervenes on information. Energy is understood to be the ultimate foundation of all matter in this universe. From Einstein's equation, E=mc^2, all matter was ultimately created out of energy, and is theoretically reducible to energy. From there it can also be derived that time comes to complete stop at the speed of light. In addition, the first law of thermodynamics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. The quantum teleportation experiments showed the entire information content (properties) of one photon can be teleported instantaneously onto another photon whereby the second photon assumes the complete identity of the first photon, while the first photon loses its complete identity. So from there, energy can be viewed to supervene on information, and information can be viewed as a fundamental category of Nature.

    Systems biology is moving in that same direction, as viewing cells as computers with machinery and software makes it possible to view information as a fundamental category of nature and all future developments of systems biology can include this concept when looking at cells.

    There are many interesting passages in this article. A few of these are going to be highlighted for discussion.
    From the article:
    Cellular processes are exquisitely controlled and carried out by remarkable biomolecular machines. The software needed to coordinate these processes is located in a fairly optimal genetic code that is optimized for evolution and maintains its own functional integrity.

    From the article:
    Why can't the function of the program be to actively manipulate information as a means to an end… self-replication and preservation. Later in the article something similar to this is actually suggested:

    From the article:
    There we go, organisms can be viewed as entities that are able to manipulate information as a means to an end. Why would it be difficult to accept that cells to behave like computers? Yet, cells are capable of more than computers, e.g. self-replication and autonomous manipulation of information.

    The article continues to discuss at length the parallels between our own created information processing systems (computers) and molecular processes fundamental to life. With more and more information being gathered on cellular mechanisms, cells can be seen as computers (machines expressing various programs), that are not only able to govern cellular processes needed to sustain the software, but also contains the necessary software and machinery to reproduce the computing machine while replicating its program.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Techne Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    211
    In order to demonstrate the validity of viewing cells as computers that are able to manipulate information, consider the following finding.

    The Ribosome: Perfectionist Protein-maker Trashes Errors

    So what is being monitored by the ribosome? Information. Material representations (amino acid sequence vs DNA sequence) of information. But, it does not only monitor it, it manipulates it as a means to an end... fidelity.

    The ribosome is optimized to manipulate information for fidelity.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Bishadi Banned Banned

    Messages:
    2,745
    what a great thread!

    on observation;

    perhaps the differences to observe between a quantum frame and 'computer' or electrical model is the capacity of variable

    the current binary, analog (on and off) model of chemical reductions, offers little method of defining the state of interacting operators of the various wavelengths of potential upon the variety of interrelating structures.

    such as when one catalyst creates a change, that energy released can become the catalyst of the next, then to change the temperature (ambiant wavelength across the field) then complete systems can change within the very same cast of variables (for example; having a fevor to create antibodies)


    just writing my thoughts
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Techne Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    211
    Information (not the material) can be seen as the basis of reality .
    Cell manipulating information as a means to an end... homeostasis.

    Consider yet another fascinating finding.
    Molecular Machine Turns Packaged Messenger RNA Into A Linear Transcript
    Cells at the core are information processing systems. Parallels between our own designed information processing systems (computers) cellular systems are there and are very useful in guiding research. However, it must be kept in mind that comparing our own measly designed models (like computers) to cellular mechanics and machinery could hamper discovering ever more intricate systems and codes in cells (e.g. epigenetic code).
    Taking cues from designs in nature, it would be a prudent exercize in humilty to not overstretch our analogous designs to the designs in nature when we can learn so much more about these designs. E.g. Biomimicry.


    The article continues:
    Several RNA processing mechanisms exist to prepare the RNA molecule for future translation. A few include polyadenylation, 5'-capping, splicing etc. Every step of the process has a quality control systems with checks and balances in order to make sure good quality proteins are formed.
    Fascinating work that further demonstrates the validity of viewing cells as computers that are able to manipulate information as a means to an end.
     
  8. Walter L. Wagner Cosmic Truth Seeker Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,559
    Isn't it nice to know that our cells function properly without any conscious input from ourselves. Very nice computer programs evolved over eons of time to which we our indebted not only to our immediate ancestors [parents, grandparents, mitochondrial-Eve, et al.], but to all the eons of evolutionary time.

    Sure would be a shame to see us accidentally destroy that by some ignorant machine-makers who only have a modicum of understanding of the intricacies of nature.
     
  9. Slacker47 Paint it Black Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    667
    Very interesting. What would the cells need to continuously function, in terms of food? I am sure that electrical currents would still be the method of computation, but how would one "feed" thier computer? This topic has been around for a couple of years, and I still cant see how to apply the idea. However, I am all for it in order to reduce the huge amount of toxic chemicals associated with computers. Good luck!
     
  10. Enmos Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    43,184
    Computer programs ?? :bugeye:
     

Share This Page