The Truman Show Concept @ Eden

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by PsychoticEpisode, Dec 30, 2008.

  1. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    The story you are about to read is true to the best of my knowledge. In the interest of brevity I wrote a Reader's Digest condensed version.

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    Hard to believe, when you read the Biblical accounts of Eden, that the rest of the world continued on beyond the Garden's boundary. Difficult to imagine but yes, life went on outside virtually uninterrupted. For Eden was created, for a special reason.

    The worst kind of hell is one you're not aware of, yet you're in it. So it goes for Adam & Eve, two hominids selected for one of the most outrageous experiments ever conducted. The purpose, to produce perfect human beings. The builder of Eden, today referred to as God, was committed to the task at hand.

    Rumor has it that both hominids were actually assembled with the confines of Eden. They were then exposed to a utopian lifestyle, in the most idyllic of settings. Doted upon, their every need was provided. How, you may ask, is this sinister in any way? The answer is... well, its subjective. Everything for the longest while went smoothly, but when the experiment started to go awry, God became displeased and lashed out in anger. This was no picnic for Adam & Eve. For proof, just pick up a Bible and read the accounts....terrible.

    Perhaps God's biggest mistake was believing He had accomplished what He had set out to do. Confident that He had done something special by developing a human being so pure and good, not to mention obedient, that He devised a test to prove His prototypes were the real deal. Unfortunately, the hominids failed miserably. The failure was so catastrophic that eventually the hominids returned to a normal state, like those who existed outside the Garden.

    The Garden was then dismantled and its inhabitants released into the real world. God never forgave Adam or Eve. Then again, God never saw the error of His ways and tormented mankind for some time after that. Eventually He moved on, but His legacy remains.

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  3. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    There is no biblical support for Humans existing outside the garden of eden during the times of Adam and Eve.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
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  5. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    *************
    M*W: The bible is not the most thorough or accurate book on human anthropological evolution. In fact, it is probably the worst. It would be like using the phone book to trace your family tree.
     
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  7. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    God does put a mark on Cain and banishes him from the Garden and says that if anyone kills Cain then He will punish that person sevenfold.:spank: Where would a potential Cain killer come from if not from outside the Garden perimeter? Or who is going to see the mark on Cain outside of the garden if no one is there?
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2008
  8. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    That is a good question, one I've often asked myself.

    jan.
     
  9. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    I'll wager that Adstar has an answer.

    While we wait for his reply, maybe you can help me get something straight. Cain murders, God tosses him out and marks him for whatever reason. This I can understand, God does what He does. However if I were to kill Cain, God would punish me 7-fold. Obviously God wants Cain alive so I doubt that God would knock him off, so the question begs...what earthly punishment is 7X worse than being killed? To know this information might help the cause of the capital punishment detractors, no?

    Is God intentionally being made out to look like a sadistic bastard by the author? For me it is just another example of some very clever writing. There seems to be a message here. Deliberate insertion of questionable material to raise the author's point that before you believe the story at least read the fine print.
     
  10. Medicine*Woman Jesus: Mythstory--Not History! Valued Senior Member

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    M*W: I'd like to know what Cheski Chips's understanding of this would be.
     
  11. The Evelyonian Registered Senior Member

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    What about Cain's wife? The Bible says that, after Cain was sent away, he went to a land in the east and took a wife. Where'd she come from?
     
  12. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    Could it have happened......

    Either human beings existed during the Eden times or the Bible contains huge gaps in the chronology of man. I expect the Bible to be perfect, so how does one approach the Cain dilemma? I have no choice but to assume there were other humans living at the time of Eden. Of course that means there was no physical creation of A & E as some would believe but metaphorically the pair represented an attempt to redesign the species psychologically, thus earning the description of being newly created.

    Who would do such a thing? My OP was satirical but there is potential. A section of the world cordoned off by a megalomaniacal ruler, a pharaoh for example, in trying to breed the perfect race. Even if it was just an experiment it is not beyond the scope of possibility, a genuine attempt at starting a Utopian society.

    The experiment was obviously chronicled and over the years, or because of a chagrined ruler, it became a story of creation and original sin. If anything, the person who attempted it learned a lesson in human psychology.

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  13. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    Your lack of basic comprehension of the sequence of bible happenings is astounding.

    Cain was never in the Garden of Eden.

    Genesis 3
    22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23 therefore the LORD God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken. 24 So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

    So first God drove them, Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden.

    Then in genesis 4 we read:

    Genesis 4
    1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, “I have acquired a man from the LORD.” 2 Then she bore again, this time his brother Abel.

    This was After they left the garden of Eden. Cain was born outside of Eden.

    Also the bible never states that Cain and Able where the only children Adam and Eve had. It actually tells of another son named Seth and that Adam had other sons and daughters. And they had plenty of time to do this cause they lived a long time in those times.

    Genesis 4
    25 And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son and named him Seth,


    Genesis5
    4 After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters. 5 So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died.

    Any one of these children or their children or great great great great great grand children could have tried to murder Cain, because even if Cain only lived half the life time of what Adam did then they would have had nearly 500 years to kill him.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  14. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    Hello again

    And you where right.

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    I guess to an atheist the loss of life would be a great loss, but even most atheists could imagine sufferings worse that death. When you think of it Able had so endure probably only a moment or two of pain and suffering before the end. There is a great deal of suffering in this world far worse that death.

    How so? God can be seen as trying to prevent a culture of vengeance killing starting. The warning can also be seen as a way to prevent others from committing the sin of murder, Cain has to face a great penalty for His doings. If God puts forward a great preventative measure to stop others falling into the same situation then it can be seen as a proclamation of love.


    "before you believe the story at least read the fine print."

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    : lol

    Maybe if you where capable of reading and comprehending the basic sequence of events you might then be able to graduate to the point of being able to read the fine print, and then you would not have posted your opening post. But i guess God has blinded another anti-Christ to the point where the basics are unobtainable for you when it comes to reading scriptures.



    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  15. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    The bible does not state how long after he went east that he found a wife. It could have been 300 years for all we know. He could have married a descendant of one of Seth’s children or one of the other descendants of Adam and Eve.

    So no problem there.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  16. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    LOL

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    You made your conclusions a bit too early Psyo.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  17. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    You got me on the chronology of garden expulsion, I admit it. I had faith in your ability to get me on that one. I'm not alone it appears. Although the world is a big place and fraught with danger I suppose it was a lucky break that Cain headed east. I know the incest angle is here but I will avoid it. However...

    Questions are not conclusions Adstar. I'm just offering other explanations, or could it have happened this way, not that I believe them. More questions....

    When did the Garden of Eden disappear from public view? The guardians of the tree of life at Eden's eastern boundary with the flaming sword, where did they go or are they still around? If the world could see that today then I don't think you'd see as many doubters, it would be the proof of God required to tip the balance.

    So after Cain commits murder he is sent away to wander about. Others must have been given the same instructions I assume. The olde 'be fruitful and multiply' credo continued abroad. In order for Cain to hook up with a gal from the east then either she or another entire group were also sent packing, would that be correct? If so then this may have been in advance of Cain's eviction. It is possible she bumped into him from a later group I guess.

    Now Cain is marked, a warning for others to not kill. This would mean that the people who were tossed out, as was Cain, were capable of murder or were already guilty of such an offence and God knew this. Why can't God put that mark on everyone that is born today? If God can protect a murderer(I think there's a free will problem here but..)then why can't He protect an innocent victim of whatever crime you can think of? Again the opportunity is there for God to prove Himself. I hope God isn't saying that you would be better off murdering anyone except Cain because to do so means suffering 7-fold punishment in the process.

    Again, where is Eden, its guardian, the flaming sword, and why does not God protect the innocent as he would a murderer with His mark? I guess it all adds up to.....why the mystery?
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2009
  18. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    If you wanted to avoid it you would have done so and not mentioned it. The point of you adding "I will avoid it" was a ploy to inject it while stopping a reply from me. Just like people who inject "with all due respect" in front of their insults. it is just an attempt to get a free kick in and avoiding a response.

    I have no problem with the fact that the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve had children together. The law against incest had not yet come into being.

    You are not offering questions. Not genuine questions anyway. But only props to support conclusions that you already made. How disingenuous can you be? I guess you can be very disingenuous but you must get better in deception to make it less obvious. It is so blatant now that it is embarrassing to read it.

    I don't know. Is there a need to know?

    They could have been removed, they could be still there but mankind could be blocked from seeing it.

    I don't believe God wants His existence to be provable at this time. i believe He wants to be believed from His message not from His presence. He has chosen the way He wants to attract mankind. So be it.

    Maybe, maybe not.


    Natural expansion due to population increase would mean that the people would have eventually reached him. And when people are living for 700, 800, or 900 years instead of 70, 80 and 90 years you can bet that the rate of population growth would have been astounding. We do not know how far Cain went, even if he had to wait 200 years for people to eventually reach his new home does not matter. There is no need for there to be an existing population in the rejoin when he got there.


    thrown out? you seem to be still locked into the thrown out of eden mistake. And all men are capable of murder.

    Gods mark on cani did not protect Him. It was a warning. People still had the free will to attempt to murder him. Just like Gods commandment "you shall not kill" does not stop murder. people do as they will to do.


    Once again you think that God wants to prove himself. What if He doesn’t want to prove Himself? What if he wants as i said above. There is no point throwing out a challenge to God or His followers to prove Gods existence when He does not want to eliminate the avenue of rejection and rebellion from those who hate the love of the truth.


    The penalty of murder is eternity in torment in the Lake of Fire, that makes the 7-fold thing kind of mute hey. Vengeance is Gods not mans He will judge and He will avenge, that’s what i believe He was establishing with Cain.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  19. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    What is God avenging? Why is He vengeful? It makes absolutely no sense.
     
  20. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    God is avenging the wrongs done by people to other people.

    It does make sence.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  21. PsychoticEpisode It is very dry in here today Valued Senior Member

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    He must work long hours. Technically speaking, any wrong done by me that affects another person is actually affecting God. Otherwise He'd pay no attention or at least butt out. This role for an all powerful deity I find ungodlike, like a big brother protects his siblings. Admirable but not worthy of adulation. Whoever said violence begets violence must have had this God in mind. Although God may not avenge with physical violence He is in some ways punishing all of us I guess.
     
  22. Adstar Valued Senior Member

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    On the contry. If one is a follower of God and knows that the wrongs done to them will be avenged then they do not carry out their own vengeance. Therefore they become a dead end for violence because the do not give violence for violence but turn the cheek and absorb it. If more people believed that God avenges wrongs then we would have fewer places like the Balkans and other blood feud and payback cultures.


    Well He has used physical violence in this world to avenge His followers.

    But He does not punish those who believe Jesus. Once one believes Jesus all their wrongs are blotted out and vengeance is removed.



    All Praise The Ancient Of Days
     
  23. swarm Registered Senior Member

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    Incest is god's preferred method of reproduction.


    All Praise The Ancient Of Hot Brother On Sister Action
     

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