Thread: News from Gaza Part 2

  1. #961
    troaty mouth best song ever pjdude1219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kremmen View Post
    Come on Bells.
    That isn't a good example.
    I'm sure there are better ones you could quote and find references for.
    what about mine? comparing the SS in poland to the jewish terror groups massacres of arabs in which you could make the case the Israelis in this regard were WORSE than the nazis.

  2. #962
    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    the talkbacks on ynet are interesting. I'm no longer surprised that the Israelis overwhelmingly support this massacre. All nutjobs, from the sound of it
    The israelis don't support massacre, they support the ending of launching the grads and kassams and mortars on civil population

  3. #963
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    I doubt things will be much more different with Obama in charge, not with Ross and Clinton setting foreign policy

  4. #964
    troaty mouth best song ever pjdude1219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1100f View Post
    The israelis don't support massacre, they support the ending of launching the grads and kassams and mortars on civil population
    your full of shit. The pardoned everyone involved in the massacres of arabs in 48/49 and they don't support massacres?

  5. #965
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1100f View Post
    The israelis don't support massacre, they support the ending of launching the grads and kassams and mortars on civil population
    Sure I read the talkbacks
    Do they have an opinion on the hermetic sealing of the Palestinians for two years and the "diet" they've been placed on?

  6. #966
    Quote Originally Posted by pjdude1219 View Post
    your full of shit.
    What a nice argument, you win, I loose

  7. #967
    All aboard, me Hearties! Captain Kremmen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    the talkbacks on ynet are interesting. I'm no longer surprised that the Israelis overwhelmingly support this massacre. All nutjobs, from the sound of it
    Sam, this is not being helpful.
    To call all Israelis nutjobs is stupid.
    The Israelis have a very censored media, though I believe that access to the internet is not restricted.
    Their news service will be showing a very clinical operation showing Palestinian bombers being killed.
    All journalists who work in the country work under licence.

    It is the Israeli supporters who have full access to the internet and world news, and who still support their actions, who are nutjobs,

  8. #968
    troaty mouth best song ever pjdude1219's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1100f View Post
    What a nice argument, you win, I loose
    Nice cutting of of the why your full of shit. but than again if your the type of person I think you are that really isn't a surprise.

  9. #969
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kremmen View Post
    Sam, this is not being helpful.
    To call all Israelis nutjobs is stupid.
    The Israelis have a very censored media.
    Their news will be showing a very clinical operation showing Palestinian bombers being killed.
    All journalists who work in the country work under licence.

    It is the Israeli supporters who have full access to the internet and world news, and who still support their actions, who are nutjobs,
    You mean they don't know how to change the channel to al Jazeera?

  10. #970
    Quote Originally Posted by pjdude1219 View Post
    Nice cutting of of the why your full of shit. but than again if your the type of person I think you are that really isn't a surprise.
    Your arguments are really good
    Again, you win for a second time, and I loose again

  11. #971
    Quote Originally Posted by 1100f View Post
    The comparison that he gives is that if "IDF soldier shooting a Palestinian grandmother in her bed " he is like Nazi. Since you said yourself that it is only if. But since you did not provide any reference, I guess that you say that the IDF does not act like the nazis. At least here we agree.
    Like the Nazi's? In some aspects no. In others, yes.. By others I mean the complete disregard for innocent lives, the willingness to slaughter innocent civilians.. They are like all murderous regimes who came before them and will come after them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Kremmen
    Sam, this is not being helpful.
    To call all Israelis nutjobs is stupid.
    The Israelis have a very censored media, though I believe that access to the internet is not restricted.
    Their news service will be showing a very clinical operation showing Palestinian bombers being killed.
    All journalists who work in the country work under licence.

    It is the Israeli supporters who have full access to the internet and world news, and who still support their actions, who are nutjobs,
    One thing I did notice was that those who accessed the international news sites were the ones who were shocked by the images they were seeing. It would appear the Israeli media do not show what we are seeing.

    There was at least one who said that he had originally been supportive of the IDF's incursion into Gaza but said support ceased when he went online and read and saw footage and images from international sites.. He realised that the disproportionate response and the ridiculous amounts of civilian casualties in Gaza no longer made it acceptable or justified.

  12. #972
    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    You mean they don't know how to change the channel to al Jazeera?
    The problem is that the Israelis think that they are in a democracy (you know with elections and all that stuff) with the freedom of press, and that the arab countries are no democracy with propagandist press, and the arabs are sure that they are democracies with freedom of press and that the Israeli press is doing propaganda.

  13. #973
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    And the Israelis with their freedoms think it is acceptable to create refugees from the indigenous peoples and deny them basic liberties such as food clean water medicines and freedom to live and move around in their land.

    To be sure I had to watch al Jazeera for only a few minutes to see the extent of destruction; that requires no words or propaganda. The death tolls are public and speak for themselves. When did Israel lose it's humanity or wasn't there any to begin with?

  14. #974
    Registered Senior Member Buffalo Roam's Avatar
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    Billy T I do have one question?

    What about the excess projectiles that do not hit the incoming target?

    What happens to those? the projectiles on most CWIS are either Explosive or Hard---Tungsten, Depleted Uranium, or a mix, and what happens when they come down,

    You could end up killing more of the citizens( and they take a very dim view of killing them to defend them) you want to protect, than would be killed by the incoming rocket and Mortars.

    Once you let a projectile out of the barrel it is on a ballistic trip that you can no longer control.

    The best solution is still destroying the launch capability of the aggressor, that is why the defense for the fleet begins over the Horizon.

    The reason that a CWIS can defend a ship miles away is that the sea surface is flat, and the ship RCS can be easily discriminated on the surface, but even then one of the problems from WWII in anti aircraft fire was against low flying aircraft, the Trip A between ship, hitting and killing crews on friendly ships.

    If I am correct that was one of the reasons for the AEGIS radar, it is a battle control system that keeps track of the friendly ship and has programs to lock out targeting of friendly ship.

    The other thing is that as the range increases, the kill probability decreases, and in most battle formations a CWIS that is defending a sister ship in the formation would be doing so at the extreme end of the systems range.

    The CWIS is and was designed as a close in defensive system, and it is the last stop on a layered defensive system that starts over the Horizon.

    It is as we say, The Oh Shit, Leaker Coming IN!!!!!!!!!!!!Defense.

    CWIS is and was designed for defence against single incoming targets, not 10 to 40, incoming targets, and those are numbers of rockets launced in a single attack I have read from news reports, they migt have a good effect against 1 to 4 incoming targets, but against 10+???

    Bullets that go up must come down, and in your case on friendly territory. .

    The HE shells yes can be timed fused, but the DPU and Tungsten, are dumb.

    The reason for the DPU in the mix, is if you don't get a hard kill of the warhead that it nocks the incoming missile off course into the sea.

    Now if you don't get a hard kill of the war head it still come down some were else and is still a danger to your population.

  15. #975
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bells View Post
    One thing I did notice was that those who accessed the international news sites were the ones who were shocked by the images they were seeing. It would appear the Israeli media do not show what we are seeing.

    There was at least one who said that he had originally been supportive of the IDF's incursion into Gaza but said support ceased when he went online and read and saw footage and images from international sites.. He realised that the disproportionate response and the ridiculous amounts of civilian casualties in Gaza no longer made it acceptable or justified.
    That's because so many of the dead and injured are very young
    children like the five sisters killed in their beds while sleeping or the children who gave testimonies of starving little brothers who died next to them [ the child was too young to understand death and just said he went "quiet"]

    The Israelis have been ignoring the wounded even children trapped under rubble, denying access to medical services. There is deliberate cruelty in allowing pet medicines to pass while denying human medications; in turning back food supplies from Mercy Corps because they contain dates, a non- essential item.

    No, I'd say the Israelis have refined torture to a new degree.

  16. #976
    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    And the Israelis with their freedoms think it is acceptable to create refugees from the indigenous peoples and deny them basic liberties such as food clean water medicines and freedom to live and move around in their land.

    To be sure I had to watch al Jazeera for only a few minutes to see the extent of destruction; that requires no words or propaganda. The death tolls are public and speak for themselves. When did Israel lose it's humanity or wasn't there any to begin with?
    Here the people are seeing that Gaza has been left three years ago. That for example a few months ago (I am sorry that I do not have the reference but It was in the news) hamas was firing on the employees of the Electricity company that were doing reparation on the station that gives part of the electricity in gaza. And after that hamas was complaining on not having electricity.
    Here we see that the hamas is firing from schools and hospitals because hamas is interested in having civilian casualties. They are firing from schools because hamas is interested in having the more possible children death.
    So who is responsible for all you see in the objective news from aljazeera


    Jews that are being persecuted in other countries are helped by the state of Israel.
    The palestinian see themselves as being persecuted, but a few days ago, when the hostilities began, at the Rafah passage, their egyptians brothers were waiting with guns to no let any refugiee get into egypt

  17. #977
    Registered Senior Member Buffalo Roam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    And the Israelis with their freedoms think it is acceptable to create refugees from the indigenous peoples and deny them basic liberties such as food clean water medicines and freedom to live and move around in their land.
    Isn't that what the Palestinians and Hamas plan if they ever get the upper hand?

    Will it matter that a Jew owned his land, and that land has been family land from the time of King David, or will Hamas kill him any way, and take his land?

    From Hamas's charter, it will count not one dammed bit.

    And even if Hamas takes it out of the written Charter, does that change anything in their heart, is part and parcel of a Hudna, make peace until you are ready to attack again.

    Islam is famous for that, Declare a Hudna and let thing settle down and then build strength and attack when least expected.

    It is in Hadiths and was used by the Prophet, and the Muslims of Islam ever since.

  18. #978
    uniquely dreadful S.A.M.'s Avatar
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    1100f:

    Do the Israelis just ignore the occupation? I get the feeling from reading their opinions [ with notable exceptions like Gideon Levy, Amira Hass, the women of Machsom Watch, Icahd and Jeff Halper] that Israelis shrug off any responsibility towards the Palestinians grievances and ignore their suffering. Do they ever meet any of them or are the Palestinians completely cut off as a people?

    Also the news of the economic blockade, the destruction of food and medicines, the people dying because of being denied access to healthcare are commonly reported even in jpost and ynet but all the responses are always in the vein of "they deserve it"

    Moreover everytime Hamas talks to Shin bet about the problems in Gaza or their desire for truce and ceasefire, acceptance of the 67 borders, necessity to lift the blockade etc this is also reported in Israeli press. I know because that is where I get my news, Israeli press is more open than western press in this matter.

    So why do Israelis still have this worldview? What do they think they can achieve like this and how do they intend to live next door to people after they kill their families and destroy their infrastructure? Do they really believe this will work? Do you?
    Last edited by S.A.M.; 01-17-09 at 09:47 AM.

  19. #979
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    As for the Egyptian border I believe the US and Israel have just signed an agreement to allow the Egyptians to control it yesterday. That border is also under Israeli control by US Egypt agreement.

  20. #980
    All aboard, me Hearties! Captain Kremmen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.A.M. View Post
    You mean they don't know how to change the channel to al Jazeera?
    Can Israelis receive the English version of al Jazeera?
    Possibly, if they have moveable dishes.
    I doubt that there is a Hebrew version.

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