News from Gaza Part 2

[Buffalo Roam]

Another false assertion.

Israel has an alternative choice - one of protecting ALL of the Israelis within range of the Gaza rocket, but if no Israelis are killed then there is no excuse for the current choice (the high kill ratio retaliatory policy).

I have several times; beginning more than three years ago, described in detail Israel’s DEFENSIVE choice. Later I learned that it is how the green zone in Baghdad is made safe from the much harder to shoot down mortar shells. (Being much denser, they fall faster than the Gaza rockets which after fuel burn out are basically just hollow tubes with small denser warhead attached.)

Wrong Billy....War is blunt force, and if you care to take notice the rocket kept being developed for longer ranges.

How long before the rocket turned into missiles, and then have the range to cover all of Israel.

This needs to be taken care of now, and Israel has the right to blockade Gaza as long as Hamas or any other Palestinian is smuggling, building, and launching rockets and mortars against it's civilians.

You proposed vaunted CWIS defense system is only a stop gap if Hamas and the Palestinians are allowed to continue their mortar, rocket, and missile assault against Israel.

Hamas bought and paid for every thing that it has received.

[Zakariya04]

actually its the fucked up leaders which stop any progress with gaza

ok then fuckit..

we cant do anything about it...............we are all fuckin victims!!! Now you sound like an israeli!!

[Buffalo Roam]

actually its the fucked up leaders which stop any progress with gaza

ok then fuckit..

we cant do anything about it...............we are all fuckin victims!!! Now you sound like an israeli!!

Zakaryia, I know what this must cost you, and I am in support of your insight on this.

You are a true Muslim and I am proud to claim you as friend.

There are more and more Muslims that are speaking out on this, and they face a shit load of criticism from fellow Muslims.

Taking a lead on this show's Honor, Courage, and Principles, and a learned Man.

Thank you for your standing up for the right and good of Islam.

PBWY

Buffalo Roam.

[S.A.M.]

actually its the fucked up leaders which stop any progress with gaza

ok then fuckit..

we cant do anything about it...............we are all fuckin victims!!! Now you sound like an israeli!!

Yeah, the ones with the western education or the dollars that keep the Gazans starving [e.g. Egypt].

[Zakariya04]

Buffalo,

thank you for your post,. the thing is last year i made 2 or 3 imistakes at work which could ahve been avoided but will probably cost me, and the thing is i can not blame my staff, my competitors, clients or suppliers cos at the end of the day the buck stops with me. This year i am trying to adapt my situation at work and evaluate things to make myself more effective.. whats the point in blaming others cos if i do that then i will not progress and my company will not progress as i will feel i have done no wrong... At the end of the day i could have blamed others but really i need to adapt and i am trying to implement a few changes which will help me for this year as i refuse to make the same mistakes twice...

i have to also tackle obstacles to make the change... but that doesnt mean i can not get round the obstacles either...

I feel the same should be applied to the Muslim world who have made mistakes and like me were outmanouvered!!

Obviously it may take a lot longer for the muslim world to adapt then just me!!!

[S.A.M.]

So basically what you are saying is the Muslim world should all get together, get WMDs and use their resources to force the US and Israel to listen to them?

I would be satisfied if they all just left the UN and stopped all transactions with those aiding and abetting the genocide in Gaza. Maybe its upto the people to overthrow their impotent governments and replace them with people willing to stand up for the victims.

[Zakariya04]

Yeah, the ones with the western education or the dollars that keep the Gazans starving [e.g. Egypt].

what they should be doing is getting there education from the west...... they have beter Universities in Europe and America and then using this to enhance their own countries......... Even Assad was educated in London......Shame on the fucker!!!

Ok then so muslims are easily corrupted easily influenced etc etc etc.........so what does that say about us???!!???!??! i refused to accept nothing can be done!!!

[S.A.M.]

what they should be doing is getting there education from the west......

So they can all mouth platitudes like the west when Palestinians are butchered? They are already doing that. Whats the difference between George Bush and King Faisal? They say the exact same things about Gaza.

[Billy T]

... How long before the rocket turned into missiles, and then have the range to cover all of Israel. ...Your proposed vaunted CWIS defense system is only a stop gap if Hamas and the Palestinians are allowed to continue their mortar, rocket, and missile assault against Israel. ....

Then Israel must use missiles to shoot down missiles (or perhaps fighter planes on constant patrol -as the US fleet uses CAP, the combat air patrol in "chain saw" mode* to shoot down missiles long before the surface ship radars can even see the threat coming. – This is the so called "outer air battle" - the first layer of fleet defense. CIWS is the last layer. Ship launched SM missiles are the intermediate layers.)

Israel is already very capable in defending it ships against even supersonic sea-skimmer, missile threats. - If, threaten by more adbvanced threads, then more advanced defenses are required, but they already exist and are affordable. I.e. Israel has them already - only needs to buy more, install and coordinate via the nationwide radar system, already in my suggestion (for the counter battery artillery fire at the launch points -Recall I want to "shred every living thing at the launch sites.")

-----------------
*Called "Chain saw" mode as at regular intervals (say every X minutes) the battle group carrier launches another CAP plane which flies out beyond the radar horizon, and stays on station for X minutes, before returning for more fuel, perhaps a new pilot, weapons etc. I.e. there may be 20 planes, in the air flying this loop, like the teeth of a chain saw. Israel has a much smaller space to make secure than a battle group on the high seas does - very "doable." - No more than 5 planes in the air at any time required. (The entire Gaza/ Israel border is only 38 miles long as I recall – easy to keep a couple CAP planes continuously over it if required.) These “on station” planes can also help to "shred any living thing at the launch sites" within minutes of the first launch. Even before the first rocket is fired, if the launcher set up is detectable. (Isreal has some of the world's best under cover agents - I bet they often know when an where laucher are going to be set up, but if some Isrealis must die to justify high kill ratio retaliation, they are not destroyed until a few rockets have been launched.)

SUMMARY the defensive technology already exists and cost less than the tanks used in the current Gaza invasion. It is not used as Israeli wants / needs/ to let a few Israelis die to justify the killing of many more Palestinians and making life a living hell for all, so they will vacated the land (move to another Arab state as approximately half have already) or can be confined entirely to concentrations camps.

Israel has more modern version of the CIWS now installed on its ships and more than enough of the older versions just sitting in naval warehouse to shoot down 100% of these crude Gaza rockets. If you can offer some other reason why Israeli has chosen to let a few Israelis be killed annually by the crude, slow Gaza rockets for several years, instead of shooting the Gaza rockets down, I would like to hear it. (I do not expect an answer as I have asked many times before.)

PS, even cheaper than CAP would be blimps, on station for more than a day, but that is not old technology - would need to develop strike missile launch from blimp capacity. Probable very simple; Just drop the strike missile and turn its thrusters on after it is safely away from the blimp is less weight than a reloadable safe launcher inside the blimp. Polaris subs ICBMs do not ignite their thruster until they are a second or so travel above the sea from their steam pressure ejection that throws them up and thru the surface. The blimp also has space for high resolution radar that could see the Gaza rocket before it is even on the launcher! Lets kill these terrorist before they can even launch! (not may children for each terrorist killed)

[Zakariya04]

So basically what you are saying is the Muslim world should all get together, get WMDs and use their resources to force the US and Israel to listen to them?

I would be satisfied if they all just left the UN and stopped all transactions with those aiding and abetting the genocide in Gaza. Maybe its upto the people to overthrow their impotent governments and replace them with people willing to stand up for the victims.

yeah something along those lines..........obviosuly i havent thought on the fine details... BUT also we should be able to out flank the western world or at least give it a go!! stop ebing pawns etc etc...

the onyl way is through education!!!

As a side note SAM, an ABU Dabai investment company which Bought Manchester city football club (soccer club to the guys form the other side of the pond), have tabled a bid for KAKA (brazilian football player) the deal is worth approximately 250million pounds!!! I am sure their brothers from gaza could do we a few quid like that!!!

[S.A.M.]

yeah something along those lines..........obviosuly i havent thought on the fine details... BUT also we should be able to out flank the western world or at least give it a go!! stop ebing pawns etc etc...

the onyl way is through education!!!

As a side note SAM, an ABU Dabai investment company which Bought Manchester city football club (soccer club to the guys form the other side of the pond), have tabled a bid for KAKA (brazilian football player) the deal is worth approximately 250million pounds!!! I am sure their brothers from gaza could do we a few quid like that!!!

Of course they could. Now figure out how they can send it without going through the Israelis. The Arabs do send a lot of money to the Palestinians. Did you know the Sauds have planes flying the injured to Riyadh from day one? Doesn't make the mainstream news.

[(Q)]

So basically what you are saying is the Muslim world should all get together, get WMDs and use their resources to force the US and Israel to listen to them?

I would be satisfied if they all just left the UN and stopped all transactions with those aiding and abetting the genocide in Gaza. Maybe its upto the people to overthrow their impotent governments and replace them with people willing to stand up for the victims.

It's too bad that Sam has to resort to the same propaganda she always spouts in the face of someone trying to stand up for reform. But, that is exactly what Zak is trying to get through her pea brain.

I'm sure I would speak for a number of people here Zak, who would think you are a hero for your foresight and strength in this matter. The only thing I would add is that Muslims are not entirely responsible for the Gaza crisis, but that reform on both sides of this problem are required.

Kudos, sir.

[(Q)]

Of course they could. Now figure out how they can send it without going through the Israelis. The Arabs do send a lot of money to the Palestinians. Did you know the Sauds have planes flying the injured to Riyadh from day one? Doesn't make the mainstream news.

Instead of being a Hugh Gass and trying to kill Zak's thread, why not just butt out with your propaganda and let him and others have their say about the OP. In other words, shut up.

[fedr808]

In 1948 the Arabs had no media, no nation, not even proper leaders. But all they had to hear was that some Europeans were killing the Palestinians and they went to fight for them. It did not even matter that they had no organized army or that most of them did not even know the Palestinians. Now they have leaders armies and media and it's their "civilisation" that keeps them from fightng for Gaza.

The Israelis have no civilization: they're still behaving as a tribe not as a nation

A tribe that can beat the f****** snot out of anyone whom has ever tried to attack Israel.

And SAM there are no planes. It's BS propaganda. You wanna know why? They have no major airports last i checked.

[fedr808]

So they can all mouth platitudes like the west when Palestinians are butchered? They are already doing that. Whats the difference between George Bush and King Faisal? They say the exact same things about Gaza.

Bush is on the winning side.

[S.A.M.]

Maybe Zak should speak to those Palestinians in Argentina who cannot send money home to their relatives without getting on the terrorist supporter watch list of the US.

Or those Palestinians who are banned from leaving Gaza after winning scholarships to universities.

U.S. Withdraws Fulbright Grants to Gaza

The American State Department has withdrawn all Fulbright grants to Palestinian students in Gaza hoping to pursue advanced degrees at American institutions this fall because Israel has not granted them permission to leave.

Poor Zak is idealistic. Reform is all very well but it won't come from emulating the cold heartedness of the west.

[fedr808]

How do you think the west is so good? How the hell do you think the US is a superpower. You guys can get 2 or 3 nukes. But at the end of the day, theyre worthless. The US has 200+ missiles in the silos, and more for the bombers and submarines. One ohio class sub could nuke an entire nation. And there are 10 in operation.

[S.A.M.]

How do you think the west is so good? How the hell do you think the US is a superpower. You guys can get 2 or 3 nukes. But at the end of the day, theyre worthless. The US has 200+ missiles in the silos, and more for the bombers and submarines. One ohio class sub could nuke an entire nation. And there are 10 in operation.

And thats what we don't want to become. I don't want Muslim nations to become like the west. Living on exploitation and fear through military force, considering "our" people better than theirs.

We can do better than that. We're Muslims.

[fedr808]

Heh, Lots of talk coming from someone whom dreams about getting one day and night and will slaughter woman and children to get them. Anyways, i seriously doubt that there are any people in the middle east educated enough to build one. Hell I could probably build oen given the materials.

[John99]

And thats what we don't want to become. I don't want Muslim nations to become like the west. Living on exploitation and fear through military force, considering "our" people better than theirs.

We can do better than that. We're Muslims.

The U.S sucks. It is horrible, i cant recommend it. Canada is much better.