Is giving stuff to poor people really helping them?

[desi]

The US has a system where poor people are given 3 hots and a cot if they are poor enough. This has led to generations of people going from cradle to the grave living off of this public welfare system.

I don't want to see anyone go to bed hungry but it seems like the way things are, it gives many lazy blokes a disincentive to work.

What do you think?

[superstring01]

As in handing change to a begger? No. As in through the United Way and other such organizations, about half yes/no.

Hand-outs create dependency. Look at government housing and welfare. A large percentage (exactly what percentage I don't know) of the people on government subsistence stay there for life. It's insane.

People need to be given a chance, and even a helping hand when needed (which can happen multiple times in life, I'm willing to admit) but there should be deadlines and time-tables. There should be drug testing and mandatory and visible effort on the recipient's part. My own mother had to receive a welfare check back in the 70's when she divorced my biological father. She was on it for about a year until she got back on her feet. I cannot fathom the rationale of letting a person receive a government check for more than five years.

~String

[visceral_instinct]

What String said. A helping hand is fine, but people shouldn't be allowed to continue being dependent.

[desi]

What String said. A helping hand is fine, but people shouldn't be allowed to continue being dependent.

My dad said a safety net is fine so long as people don't use it as a hammock.

[cosmictraveler]

There's a big problem in the USA today brought on by the government releasing hundreds of thousands of people that were being treated in mental hospitals everywhere. Since the governments of many states thought it better to just release these incompetent people back into the street without any aid it created more problems for them. The government should not have done that because all of those people or at least a great majority of them went homeless and became bigger problems to society.

[desi]

A homeless person is cheaper than a hospital patient. Right?

[cosmictraveler]

If you were sick and put into a hospital for many years then suddenly released because they can't afford to help you any longer, would you be better off homeless without any care or help at all? Homeless start fights, disrupt others, create dangerous situations and are a threat at times to themselves and others.

[Asguard]

yea a living, right. Its so much better to force the poor into crime where you can blme them than actually help right?

edit to add: at least it keeps the lawyers employed right?

[John99]

There will always be scammers but what about the people who need it legitimately?

[cosmictraveler]

There will always be scammers but what about the people who need it legitimately?

As well as those greedy people taking advantage of everyone they can and hoarding all the money for themselves and their co conspirators.

[Asguard]

what?
you mean the ritch?
people like kerry packer whos motto was "pay as little tax as possable"? (which is theft from everyone else because what he DOESNT pay, we have to)

[desi]

what?
you mean the ritch?
people like kerry packer whos motto was "pay as little tax as possable"? (which is theft from everyone else because what he DOESNT pay, we have to)

The government is basically a gang with guns trying to take what you have. Is it really wrong to try to keep what you have in light of that?

[Pandaemoni]

The US has a system where poor people are given 3 hots and a cot if they are poor enough. This has led to generations of people going from cradle to the grave living off of this public welfare system.

I don't want to see anyone go to bed hungry but it seems like the way things are, it gives many lazy blokes a disincentive to work.

What do you think?

I am not sure there are "cradle to grave" welfare recipients. Even if there were, the welform reform passed during the Clinton Administration requires people to start working after two years of receiving benefits.

I have known people on welfare, and all were ashamed and strongly motivated to get off the program. I think the people who dream of living a lifetime on welfare are in the distinct minority, and more often raised as a sort of "bogeymen of the welfare state."

[synthesizer-patel]

As I see it one of the big problems with social security payments is that people are paid not to work -at least that's how it works in the UK - I've seen people in the situation where they are only a couple tens of pounds better off taking a low paid job than they are sat on their backsides claiming benefit - humans are pretty good at working out the kinds of payoffs in these situations so who can blame them - seriously!.
Even taking on a part time job doesn't help as any extra cash they earn is taken off their dole money - so its a waste of time for them.
My view is that we need to figure out ways to give people incentives to be productive rather than unproductive - it supposedly works for businesses afterall.

One of the most interesting and constructive solutions I heard was from the green party of all people - they suggested that EVERBODY gets social security payments, and you can work on top - admittedly that would make for a horrendously complicated tax system but it was good to hear some new ideas on the subject - mostly all we get is boring old rhetoric from both sides of the political spectrum.

[ElectricFetus]

People like to bitch about the "safety net", "Welfare programs", etc, until they actually need it. The most effective thing to do to poor people is slave labor and if they can't work we can salvage their organs for other people that could work and also for use in experimentation... just saying.

[Stryder]

The US has a system where poor people are given 3 hots and a cot if they are poor enough. This has led to generations of people going from cradle to the grave living off of this public welfare system.

I don't want to see anyone go to bed hungry but it seems like the way things are, it gives many lazy blokes a disincentive to work.

What do you think?

Most welfare systems are referred to as a "spiral", since there is never enough money given to get a person out of the welfare system, just enough to stop them starving and meet certain Human Rights Conditions.

Basically the poor will always be poor if left to welfare alone.

A better system would be to try and identify a persons talents and help them achieve in them, so that one day they can earn their fair share and support the system like everyone else. This is obviously effected however by the numbers of people that misuse the poor for their own reasons. i.e. the Pharmaceutical Industry without the under nourished and otherwise downtrodden existing, their entire industry of "Magic Beans" would be quite useless since nobody would be experiencing prolonged damage neurologically and wouldn't require their drugs in turn.

[Orleander]

I had a friend whose parents where on disability. They couldn't work because they were alcoholics. I still can't believe it.

[LadyMidnight]

I had a friend whose parents where on disability. They couldn't work because they were alcoholics. I still can't believe it.

That's just retarded.

I really feel for war veterans who are physically and mentally disabled. I think we need to take better care of them, rather than waste tax dollars on purely lazy people.

[Roman]

Most welfare systems are referred to as a "spiral", since there is never enough money given to get a person out of the welfare system, just enough to stop them starving and meet certain Human Rights Conditions.

Basically the poor will always be poor if left to welfare alone.

A better system would be to try and identify a persons talents and help them achieve in them, so that one day they can earn their fair share and support the system like everyone else. This is obviously effected however by the numbers of people that misuse the poor for their own reasons. i.e. the Pharmaceutical Industry without the under nourished and otherwise downtrodden existing, their entire industry of "Magic Beans" would be quite useless since nobody would be experiencing prolonged damage neurologically and wouldn't require their drugs in turn.

Most people's talents amount to digging ditches or serving fries with that. It's why you can never unionize unskilled labor without outside force- there's always another worthless bloke willing to do your job for less.

[laladopi]

I think if children are involved. Yes.
If the kid's have parents they should be helped too.
It makes a difference with some.