interesting arguments

[Asguard]

I was at my families over christmas and i ended up in an argument over 2things:

My point blank refusal to go to church and my instance on calling it the "Midsummer festival"

Now my family are all catholic and im apathetic agnostic because i really dont give a shit about religion in the slightest. Anyway mum comes up to me and asks "Will you come to church with us christmas night". My imidiate responce was "HELL NO, i went to my grandfathers funeral in a church yes but that is compleatly different, i have no desire to sit and lission to a lot of people preaching about a fairy tale". Ok i wasnt QUITE that harsh but i wish i had been, it really ended after the bit about pop's funeral.

Her comment back to me "You were raised catholic and we do this as a family"
my responce "im an athiast and i have better things to do"

So at this point we ended up in a yelling match which lead onto an argument about the true festival, the origional festival and its revival. My firm belife is that the christan christmas is dying and the orgional mid winter (mid summer in our case) is re-exerting itself. Anyway her comment was "if you have no interest in church, then i guess you have no interest in the rest of christmas either"

So i tweaked her nose

I responded "no its just that you also celibrate the pagen midsummer festival just like i do" This didnt go down to well, especially when i said i was writing "merry summer solsitce" on all there christmas cards

The main point comes in here, she acused me of pushing my belifes on the rest of them but didnt seem to have any issue pushing her own on me. I was polite and could have done alot worse in what i said but the way she was pushing me reminded me of the JW at the door early in the morning.

[cosmictraveler]

I've had a friend for my entire life who became a minister when he was about 27. We still saw each other and had great conversations about religion when we wanted to but otherwise religion never came up in our friendship. As with any true friends it is not what they believe in but who they are and how they treat you. When I was invited to meet his congregation I never even thought about being an atheist but being a friend and told him I'd be very happy because he asked me as a friend not as a fellow believer in his church. I went there and met some very nice people who were all very nice to me and treated me just as another person and never once brought religion into our conversations.

Sometimes we all must put aside our differences especially when it comes to friends and family because they are the only people who really understand us the most. Going to church doesn't make me any less an atheist but does draw the bonds of friendship ans well as family tighter together. It is always your decision to do what you want but sometimes you end up losing someone you really love to ideological ideals and theology. Is it worth doing that to those you care about?

[leopold]

The main point comes in here, she acused me of pushing my belifes on the rest of them but didnt seem to have any issue pushing her own on me.

and you found it necessary to ruin a families get together because of this? shame on you.

[James R]

It probably wouldn't kill you to show some respect to your mum and go to church, Asguard. What are you worried about - that you'll suddenly turn Christian?

Is it really that important to take a stand? And is it so important that it needs to be done in a confrontational and impolite way?

[Asguard]

actually no
more like i was afraid of having a panic atack in church concidering i HATE being around people i dont know

that or falling asleep which is what happened last time i went to church

either way have you ever sat through something you compleatly reject and loath?
REALLY loath?

i dispise EVERYTHING about the catholic church. Its the root cause of a fair majority (if not all) of the worlds current problems. Not to mention that to sit there for 2 hours without saying a word is mostly impossable to me, its alright for the indoctinated who have things to do, get up, kneel, sit down ect but me? i just sit there in compleate silence.

There are alot of reasons i have no interest in going back into a church, mostly the first however.

[w1z4rd]

I went through this with my family (also devout catholics) though I have to admit, I made the situation as unconfrontational as possible and both sides were able to compromise.

Though what made my case simpler was my family are what I would call "smarter christians"... they already know that the 25th of December is not Christs bday.

[Challenger78]

I was lucky. My parents understood. It was either that, or the fact that I made it extremely clear.

I applaud Asguard, Be true to yourself, If you keep pretending, is it really worse than actually believing ?

[Betrayer0fHope]

My parents can't seem to get away from their beliefs. My dad seems to know Gods do not exist but still believes in the Hindu religion :\. My mom just seems to believe in some divine creator, similar to IDers. And btw Challenger love the quote.

[EntropyAlwaysWins]

Perhaps if you were less confrontational and explained this calmly and rationally then your family would be more be more willing to listen, if not, try to avoid the subject as you probably wont get anywhere by bringing it up repeatedly.

[Orleander]

I was at my families over christmas and i ended up in an argument over 2things:

My point blank refusal to go to church and my instance on calling it the "Midsummer festival"....

If you knew it was a Christmas celebration, why didn't you refuse to go? Why go and then make it about your beliefs. You had to have known it was about Christmas and not midsummer festival.

Imagine if you had invited them over to a BBQ and then your guest demands that it be PETA friendly after they get there.

[John99]

actually no
more like i was afraid of having a panic atack in church concidering i HATE being around people i dont know

so you shouldnt have been afraid to tell her that. first thing is to remove the facade and denial and start taking responsibility for your own problems. which are not that big because that is something you cant control and what is the big deal about panic attacks from being in crowds of people?

if you are honest people will accept you for who you are and you will no longer need to pretend. your putting on a front, normally i would say that this is none of my business but you made a thread on the internet about it. We wont hold back, we will not go running out of the room crying.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

What bullshit! Delusional people who believe in nasty cruel absurd fantasies get upset that someone refuses to participate. I can't say about these people for certain but the vast majority of Christians would react much worse if pushed to attend a ceremony of a religion they don't believe in.
When people who know my views on religion ask me to attend such, I feel offended & disrespected.
The god of the KJV is an immature insecure bully & too many believers are the same. It shouldn't be up to us all the damn time to put up with their crap in silence. They need to frigging grow up.
1111

[PsychoticEpisode]

I was at my families over christmas and i ended up in an argument over 2things:

You simply picked the wrong time to argue religion.

[Asguard]

i dont think so actually, my grandfathers funeral would have been the wrong time and place. The fact that i came down to see my FAMILY for christmas and was ambushed by something i thought had been delt with at least 7 years ago certainly WASNT the wrong time. "Christmas" for me means the secular pagen festival, ie spending time with family, increasing the green house output of the country, the version of "a christmas carol" which is playing on channel 7 that year, lots of food and booze ect. It has apsolutly NOTHING to do with the catholic church. Thats MY "religion" and im quite happy to let them go on with their religion but to force it on me when i came down to see them rather than spending it with my partner is just as rude as if i had replaced all the christmas cards with "merry summer solstace" cards.

I expect this sort of atitude from my grandparents, and i can there for avoid it or deal with it diplomatically. But to get it from my parents is compleatly different, they know dam well what my atitude is to the point where my mother was unnessarly diplomatic in asking me to paticipate in my pop's funeral mass (she neednt have been then because that was a compleatly different situation) but to spring this on me simply because it was christmas is rude.

For an example, lets say my parents came to see me on the winter solstace and i had gone through with joining the wiccam religion. Would i have been justifide in ambusing my parents to go to THAT when i knew dam well that they didnt belive it and had zero interest in going???

james especially for you, what would your reaction be if your parents expected you to go to a pauline hanson rally?

[PsychoticEpisode]

Well I guess you now know your family's opinion of your religious convictions. It does appear as a set up and I think it is obvious that they have discussed your beliefs (or lack of) without you being present. It is a shared concern for them and you must realize that they are worried about you. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't know what was said exactly and its very hard for anyone else to pass judgment on who is right or wrong. Instead of showing your emotional side it would have been more tactful to avoid confrontation and go to church out of respect for your family, especially mom.

[jessiej920]

Once my friend dragged me to her Romanian church for christmas...

TWO HOURS of up and down, up and down, and a sermon in a language I do not speak...

I have never wanted to shoot myself more then about half-way through my romanian christmas church sermon...ARGGGHH!

So, in the end Asgaurd, if the catholic church makes you feel the way my romanian church experience made me feel, I kind of understand your resistance. BUT, you could just shut the f up for once and go...I do every once in a while and I'm PAGAN! It's all in the spirit of giving and celebrating life. Midwinter is about sacrifice...so maybe you could sacrifice your comfort for a little while and go with your fam. Just an idea.

[distantcube]

It probably wouldn't kill you to show some respect to your mum and go to church, Asguard. What are you worried about - that you'll suddenly turn Christian?

Is it really that important to take a stand? And is it so important that it needs to be done in a confrontational and impolite way?

He's not two years old. If he doesn't want to go to church, he doesn't have to. Jeesh.

[Ophiolite]

He's not two years old. If he doesn't want to go to church, he doesn't have to. Jeesh.

And if he wants to behave like a spoilt brat then he is free to do so.
Asguard, having read a couple of your 'personal' posts in the last couple of days I can declare with complete honesty what a delight it is not to know you. You are a brash, arrogant, self indulgent prat. I have little expectation you will change. It isn't all about you, asshole.
What a sacrifice you made! Returning to your home for summer solstice! (Pretentious twit.) My, my. Normally, when we reach adulthood, we can stop the rebellion. Is that the answer. You still haven't matured. It sure seems that way.

Asshole.

[distantcube]

And if he wants to behave like a spoilt brat then he is free to do so.

Sure. If he wants to behave like a spoilt brat when someone tries to pressure him into participating in an activity he doesn't want to, even though they know the said individual hates that activity, then that's fine!

His mother could have just said "Ahh ok, we'll be back in an hour or two, don't hack into the roast turkey." but nahh, everything has to be her way. I hate people like that. If I don't want to do something, then I don't want to do it, end of story. Either make me want to do it, or shut the fuck up.

You are a brash, arrogant, self indulgent prat. I have little expectation you will change. It isn't all about you, asshole.

Why shouldn't it be all about him? Who else is going to look after his interests? Me? You? HAHAHAHAHAH! Fuck that.

[John99]

This is sad. I dont know weather to say poor Asguard or poor mum.