Suicides more likely to be atheists

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by S.A.M., Dec 15, 2008.

  1. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2008
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. w1z4rd Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,541
    Yeah.. someone better. At least less of them will be justifying their incorrect actions on a fairy tale. It would be great to have less religious homicidal maniacs and hopefully the world will see more honest people

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Since they will also be killing themselves more frequently, I wonder what the moral imperative is here.
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. w1z4rd Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,541
    Since its their own bodies they are welcome to prove natural selection right as much as they want to. The problem comes when they start stoning rape victims and such.. or effecting other peoples lives.
     
  8. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    And natural selection so far has shown how successful atheism is as an ideology.

    So yeah, let them go ahead and prove it. But to infect those poor kids with it to take them along. Its very sad.



    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!




    WHO, Figures and facts about suicide, 1999
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2008
  9. mis-t-highs I'm filling up Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    436
    Yeah they should go down now.
    Isn't that a good thing.
     
  10. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,536
    What are you suggesting, that the absence of religion leads to increased suicide rates?

    Heh, well, That's better than dooming millions to death through the indirect effects of religion..
     
  11. (Q) Encephaloid Martini Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    20,855
    "The society does not consider itself to be a religious organisation and believes ethics have "no necessary connection with religion".
     
  12. Varda The Bug Lady Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,184
    Do you think that religion should be applied as suicide prevention?
     
  13. Varda The Bug Lady Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,184

    That doesn't count the suicide bombers amirite?? omfg lol
     
  14. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    I don't think they would change the figures much, although one could argue that a martyr in the cause of freedom is not equivalent to disposing of your life from existential angst.
     
  15. Varda The Bug Lady Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    6,184
    Funny, not so long ago you said that a monk sitting silent while his body burns down should be stopped, as any other suicidal person should.
    Or the "one [who] could argue" just happens to not be you?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  16. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Of course they should, but killing yourself for a cause vs killing yourself because life is meaningless are opposite ends of the spectrum.

    Would an atheist sacrifice his life for an idealogical cause, do you think?
     
  17. James R Just this guy, you know? Staff Member

    Messages:
    39,397
    I found SAMs graph on the correlation between suicide and religion interesting. Another article on this (more recent) is here:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/108625/More-Religious-Countries-Lower-Suicide-Rates.aspx

    Data from a 2005-6 Gallup poll bear outs SAM's data. But is religiosity the real factor? Findings:

    1. Suicide rates are slightly higher in wealthier countries, but the correlation between religion and suicide is stronger than the correlation between wealth and suicide.

    2. More religious countries may tend to underreport suicides. However, even when only less religious countries are counted, suicides tend to be higher in the less religious of those countries.

    3. Greater social capital (community feeling etc.) could be hypothesised as responsible for lower suicide rates. However, if this was true, we might expect homicide rates to be lower in more religious countries. In fact, homicide rates tend to be higher in more religious countries.

    4. Findings on a national level may not translate to a personal level. For example, in 2002, statistician Sterling Hilton and colleagues showed that among young men who were actively involved in the Mormon church, suicide rates were three to five times lower than those of either non-members or less active church members.

    5. Religious people are much less likely than the general public to believe that suicide is "morally acceptable."

    The article concludes that it is possible that religion serves as an antidote to the lack of purpose that can make a desperate act such as suicide seem appealing. Believing in something bigger than oneself may allow some people to hold onto life in a world where people without such a belief sometimes give up all hope. Another possibility is that some religious people may believe that committing suicide jeopardizes their security in an afterlife. Alternately, the human connections that people typically forge in religious groups may serve as a buffer against suicide. Whatever the reason for the religion-suicide link, these results suggest that leaders who wish to understand the well-being of a country must look beyond traditional economic indicators. When it comes to well-being, spiritual concerns may be at least as important as economic ones.

    ---

    SAM's argument in this thread was that religious education is good because it reduces suicides, so children should be spared an evil "secular" education to protect them from suicide.

    My argument, in reverse, could be that religious education is bad because it leads to an increased murder rate. Children should be spared evil religious education systems, because that way their chance of being murdered will be decreased.

    What seems clear to me is that the kind of simplistic argument put forward by SAM needs a lot more research and support.
     
  18. Ghost_007 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,170

    If Athiests don't want to live, feel depressed then they should kill themselves - in large numbers. They don't believe in heaven or hell, when they die thats it, the end. Why should they have to live a sad depressed life for decades when they can end it in minutes and never have to feel pain or suffering?

    For atheists, suicide should be encouraged. Why live a life of toil, breaking your back for others when it doesn't mean anything?
     
  19. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    True, why get brainwashed into living by artificial external stigma?
     
  20. Bells Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,270
    How this has come to be a discussion of suicide rates is beyond me.. here's one attempt to bring it back to the subject matter of the OP.

    And they are. The courses are voluntary and no child is going to be forced into learning about religion or the lack of evidence of God. Parents can opt to have their children not sit those particular classes. Or the children can as well. So they can study all forms of religion or study none at all before they can make up their minds. But here's the thing that I don't seem to understand. You seem to think that they should only be taught religion but not the humanistic approach (eg. no evidence of God), which kind of goes against their being allowed to make up their own minds after seeing and learning about all sides.

    To be allowed to make up one's own mind, one should be able to learn about all the sides of the equation, not just one side.

    I personally think this is a good idea. Children can finally have a choice in their religious education and the same goes for parents as well.

    Funny. Maybe you should give Ghost the same little lecture about his lack of empathy when he advocated for the mass suicide of atheists. Oh wait, was this it?

    Amazing how you can lack what you accuse others of lacking if you happen to agree with it, eh Sam?

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  21. Ghost_007 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,170

    Though the West leads the World in technological advances and scientific breakthroughs they have massive problems regarding social issues. There are massive issues with the family unit being eradicated, the concept of marriage no longer taken seriously, a ridiculously high divorce rate, children born out of wedlock, unstable upbringings. And no one cares, members of parliament, prime ministers, presidents, no one gives a shit! the people that run our countries do not even mention these issues. They pretend its not their business, there is no moral order, only chaos.

    Now religion is more than just believing in God, it is a culture, a way of life. Religion is meeting up with family and friends, religion is going to weddings, get togethers, having people in the community meet up and discuss issues affecting them all (happens in Mosques, Churches etc). When you attack the whole concept of religion without any understanding you are at risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Religion can help tackle social issues.
     
  22. S.A.M. uniquely dreadful Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    72,825
    Not at all, I am advocating pro-choice and critical thinking. Right to die and so on. Minus any social brainwashing on arbitrary concepts such as the value of life. Make suicide, drugs etc more socially acceptable instead of imposing religious notions of suicide as sin. Independent thinking. Maybe pharmacists could dispense potassium cyanide once the person has made an informed choice and so on. We can form a support group to help them through the process.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  23. SkinWalker Archaeology / Anthropology Moderator

    Messages:
    5,874
    SAM,

    Please cite the page number(s) on that publication from which you construct your graph. My contention is that this is contrived, if not invented, information and, thus, trolling.

    If you are unable to find the page number(s) to provide a proper citation, please delete your posts or at least concede that you invented the information.
     

Share This Page