Why atheism makes you mean

[S.A.M.]

Neither aliens or UFOs are supernatural.

Ah are you one of these?

Believing in ghosts and little green men from outer space appears a touch easier than having faith in God, according to a survey.

The researchers found that while 54 per cent of us are convinced the Almighty exists, 58 per cent believe in the supernatural.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-mediums.html

[quadraphonics]

Ah are you one of these?

No, just someone who understands the definition of the word "supernatural."

[spidergoat]

Whatever else athiests are, has nothing to do with athiesm. If they adopt some alternate ideology to replace theism it is because athiesm is incomplete in itself and offers nothing

It does offer freedom from superstition and an affinity with science and rationality. But you are right in that it doesn't pretend to be a complete anything.

[S.A.M.]

No, just someone who understands the definition of the word "supernatural."

Of course. You mean paranormal

It does offer freedom from superstition and an affinity with science and rationality. But you are right in that it doesn't pretend to be a complete anything.

It offers nothing of the kind. All it says is that these people lack faith/believe in no God. Thats all. Everything else is just religious toppings

[spidergoat]

That's good enough for me.

[Anti-Flag]

It offers nothing of the kind. All it says is that these people lack faith/believe in no God. Thats all. Everything else is just religious toppings

Which contradicts your idea that atheism somehow makes people mean.

[iceaura]

Whatever else athiests are, has nothing to do with athiesm. If they adopt some alternate ideology to replace theism it is because athiesm is incomplete in itself and offers nothing

Well, the possibility of intellectual and spiritual integrity is not perhaps nothing.

But possibly you refer to the lack any particular spiritual belief or depth of insight derivable from merely not having a God in mind. That is a reasonable point, and one slighted by Dawkins IMHO - although, to be fair, he has a lot on his plate.

Lack of a deity, especially rejection of a deity, is not a defined state and brings no spiritual guidance of its own necessarily. It's possible to launch one's little spiritual boat out of the mud and find that it hasn't come with a paddle.

So? If you are arguing for crippling delusion on the basis that it fills a need, that is one thing. If you are arguing that something that fills a need therefore cannot be a crippling delusion, that is something else.

[S.A.M.]

So? If you are arguing for crippling delusion on the basis that it fills a need, that is one thing. If you are arguing that something that fills a need therefore cannot be a crippling delusion, that is something else.

I suppose a crippling delusion that sustains society is better than a bunch of indiviualists that can't.

[spidergoat]

If you are defining religion as something that sustains and unites a society, you have eliminated the God aspect of it. A non-God idea that does the same thing would be equally good, right?

[S.A.M.]

Well atheism is certainly not going to cover it. Its a failed philosophy. Even atheists look for something more.

[James R]

Atheism isn't a philosophy.

[S.A.M.]

It isn't anything much than a claim [which is now evolved to being less than a claim]

[James R]

You make a big deal of atheism, SAM. It's not really a big deal - it's just not believing in gods. That's all.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

1 suppose we must a11 accept your defin1t1on of peace as we11, now.

So you suppose 1 can be at peace believing people should suffer horribly for eternity?

Have they? Do they succeed? Religion = communal living. Atehism = individualistic living.

Certain aspects of religion result from people's desire to live together in a community.
Atheism does not equal individualistic living.

Whatever else athiests are, has nothing to do with athiesm. If they adopt some alternate ideology to replace theism it is because athiesm is incomplete in itself and offers nothing

That has nothing to do with atheism either. Plenty of atheists into aliens and UFOs

Atheism is complete. It offers all it should offer. It is simply the lack of any belief in gods. Nothing more. Nothing less.

Of course. You mean paranormal

It offers nothing of the kind. All it says is that these people lack faith/believe in no God. Thats all. Everything else is just religious toppings

You're good at contradicting yourself.

Well atheism is certainly not going to cover it. Its a failed philosophy. Even atheists look for something more.

Atheism is not a philosophy. Atheism covers 1 thing & 1 thing only.
1111

[S.A.M.]

You make a big deal of atheism, SAM. It's not really a big deal - it's just not believing in gods. That's all.

And thats exactly my point.

[James R]

But you called it a "failed philosophy", SAM.

[S.A.M.]

Yeah, because as atheism+pseudoreligion, it has always failed.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

There is NOTHING about atheism that can succeed or fail. It's not an attempt at anything. There is no goal in atheism. Atheism is simply being an atheist. Being an atheist is simply not having any belief in any gods. It's simply not being a theist.
1111

[iceaura]

I suppose a crippling delusion that sustains society is better than a bunch of indiviualists that can't.

Pol Pot, Mao, and Stalin would agree. Machiavelli would have reservations - although appropriate for the subjects, the Prince must take care to avoid such delusions in himself, and maintain the form only. Jefferson and apparently Lincoln would more or less agree with Machiavelli.

Apparently most scientists would not. Is that a sign of the evil of individualism, in scientists, or do they get a pass because of the more immediately severe consequences of such delusion on their work?

But we have at last the basics of a discussion that can progress. The next question might be how a responsible member of such a society, one held together by a crippling delusion with all attendant effects and eventual fate, should act if they find themselves unable or unwilling to accept the crippling or the deluded state.

[swarm]

Hmm...why religion makes you a pussy...