# Thread: big red bulls eye on the wtc in 9/11

1. ## big red bulls eye on the wtc in 9/11

Many people say that it was a controlled demolition. But to make it look remotely plausible the plane would have had to have hit near the exact same spot as where the explosives were. Otherwise it would be obvious because it would look like a huge plane hit the tower and there was an explosion 20 stories below. Now here's the funny part. There was no painting of a red bulls eye on the wtc.

A normal plane is traveling at around 400 mph which translates to around the area of 600 feet per second. Probably the pilot if he had very good vision could count how many levels on the building by counting the windows at around 200 feet. Again this means he has to have excellent vision. so that means the pilot has from 1/3 to 1/6 of a second to not only count how many levels were on the building but to also alter the plane's flight course to hit that spot. Now i think we can all believe that that it impossible.

And considering that the plane was rapidly descending and the pilot's probably wanted maximum impact so this means the plane probably would've traveled at around 600 mph, translating to around 900 ish feet per second. This means that the pilots probably would have had around 1/4 to 1/9 of a second to count the levels and correct the planes altitude. Which is even more impossible.

The only other explanation that you scott should've considered was explosives on the plane. Which would be the only way it would work.

In conclusion, since everyone knows no one painted a giant red bull's eye on the side of the wtc, there was no practical way for the plane to have hit the exact position of the supposed explosives so perfectly, and is impossible.

2. so this is all impossible?

3. What is an actual impossibility by percentages is that one or more teams of expert professionals in drilling, explosives and building detonations were able to drill into at least 20 colums of 40 plus colums on each floor so to cause it to perfectly pancake and to sabotage at least every fifth floor of 110 floors of the two buildings and then to completely go unnoticed while doing all this work for how long? It would have taken years. Many of those pillers were only accessable through offices, bathrooms and the elevator shafts. But of course the theory here is that this was done only at night and through out the entire duration of placing the charges the teams always got done before the workers showed up.
Oh, we also have the new theory to apply that the charges were contained in metal boxes that protected them from going off by accident. Hundreds to thousands of these boxes were used they say. Wonder who got that job? Secret goverment agents with welding back grounds that refuse to speak today? But with this theory we now have to go back to the pillers. Were metal containments cylinder in shape or square or rectangular or something else? Why does this matter? It is much quicker to drill a long hole and stuff in it a cylinder tube and then to seal the hole up with cement or another hard substance then say to make a hole to fit any other shape which would take longer to drill and fill.

4. Originally Posted by fedr808
The only other explanation that you scott should've considered was explosives on the plane. Which would be the only way it would work.
Possibly in the form of hundreds of gallons of aircraft fuel?

What is an actual impossibility by percentages is that one or more teams of expert professionals in drilling, explosives and building detonations were able to drill into at least 20 columns of 40 plus columns on each floor so to cause it to perfectly pancake and to sabotage at least every fifth floor of 110 floors of the two buildings and then to completely go unnoticed while doing all this work for how long? It would have taken years.
What evidence do you have that it would have taken years? In any case, Securacom, in which Marvin Bush, Bush's youngest brother, was a principal and financed by KuwAm, had atleast 2 years to get things going between 1996 and 1998. There is apparently some confusion, atleast in earlier years, as to whether or not Securacom really stopped working there in 1998. The irony is that the same author, Margie Burns, has apparently told 2 different stories in 2 different articles.

On January 20, 2002, Margie Burns wrote an article titled "Security, Secrecy and a Bush Brother". In it, she wrote:
"According to its present CEO, Barry McDaniel, the company had an ongoing contract to handle security at the World Trade Center "up to the day the buildings fell down.""

And yet, in February 15, 2005, in "Trimming The Bushes, Family Business at the Watergate", she wrote:
"Securacom got the \$8.3 million World Trade Center security contract in October 1996 and received about \$9.2 million from the WTC job from 1996 (a quarter of its revenues that year) to 1998. But in 1998, the company was "excused from the project" because it could not fulfill the work, according to former manager Al Weinstein, and the electronic security work at the WTC was taken over by EJ Electric, a larger contractor."

Both of these stories can't be right.

There's more too. Originally from arcticbeacom.com, with a surviving excerpt on whatreallyhappened.com's Larry Silverstein page:

"It was well-known by the city of New York that the WTC was an asbestos bombshell. For years, the Port Authority treated the building like an aging dinosaur, attempting on several occasions to get permits to demolish the building for liability reasons, but being turned down due the known asbestos problem. Further, it was well-known the only reason the building was still standing until 9/11 was because it was too costly to disassemble the twin towers floor by floor since the Port Authority was prohibited legally from demolishing the buildings. [Arctic Beacon] "

whatreallyhappened.com continues, stating:
"Other New York developers had been driven into bankruptcy by the costly mandated renovations, and \$200 million represented an entire year's worth of revenues from the World Trade Towers. The perfect collapse of the twin towers changed the picture."

From the Monterrey Herald, with a surviving excerpt on whatreallyhappened.com:

"Under a pending agreement, a developer and his investors will get back most of the down payment that they made to lease the World Trade Center just six weeks before a terrorist attack destroyed the twin towers. Developer Larry Silverstein and investors Lloyd Goldman and Joseph Cayre are nearing a deal that would give them about \$98 million of their original investment of \$124 million, The New York Times reported Saturday. [MontereyHerald 11/22/2003] "

Here's the New York Times article in question:
Silverstein Will Get Most of His Cash Back In Trade Center Deal

Whatreallyhappened.com continues:
"Instead of renovation, Silverstein is rebuilding, funded by the insurance coverage on the property which 'fortuitously' covered acts of terrorism. Even better, Silverstein filed TWO insurance claims for the maximum amount of the policy, based on the two, in Silverstein's view, separate attacks. The total potential payout is \$7.1 billion, more than enough to build a fabulous new complex and leave a hefty profit for the Silverstein Group, including Larry Silverstein himself.

As reported in The Washington Post, the insurance company, Swiss Re, has gone to court to argue that the 9/11 disaster was only one attack, not two and that therefore the insurance payout should be limited to \$3.55 billion, still enough to rebuild the complex.
"

In the end, as Forbes reports,
"A federal jury on Monday ruled that the assault on the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center was in fact two occurrences for insurance purposes. The finding in U.S. District Court in Manhattan means leaseholder Larry Silverstein may collect up to \$4.6 billion, according to reports. [Forbes.com 12/06/04]"

Whatreallyhappened.com finishes off:
"The result of court ruling: Silverstein makes a huge profit off of the 9/11 attacks."

Many of those pillers were only accessable through offices, bathrooms and the elevator shafts. But of course the theory here is that this was done only at night and through out the entire duration of placing the charges the teams always got done before the workers showed up.
Oh, we also have the new theory to apply that the charges were contained in metal boxes that protected them from going off by accident. Hundreds to thousands of these boxes were used they say.
Who is the they in your "that's what they say"? I myself fully admit that how they managed to put in all the explosives is not an easy question to answer. This may certainly have helped with the finishing touches, atleast, however:

Wonder who got that job? Secret goverment agents with welding back grounds that refuse to speak today? But with this theory we now have to go back to the pillers. Were metal containments cylinder in shape or square or rectangular or something else? Why does this matter? It is much quicker to drill a long hole and stuff in it a cylinder tube and then to seal the hole up with cement or another hard substance then say to make a hole to fit any other shape which would take longer to drill and fill.
As to who go the job, I myself am not sure.

However, it seems a lot of evidence points towards involvement by Israel's Mossad:
Mossad - The Israeli Connection To 911

911 Was a Mossad False Flag Operation

The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested On 9-11

7. The five dancing Israelis should be brought to a full investigation under the US laws .

8. they were investigated. the thing is that dancing is not a crime.

9. It seems that they were. What if they did nothing wrong? There is no evidence whatsoever that they were responsible. If I worked for Israeli intelligence, I would film the event too, and I might even be excited that terrorism would finally be taken seriously by the Bush administration.

10. Originally Posted by mike47
The five dancing Israelis should be brought to a full investigation under the US laws .
You may not know that Stryder has banned discussions of this sort on sciforums and has closed many threads on this subject as a result; his reasoning was summed up in this post. Quoting it:

The whole 9/11 conspiracies that Scott, Psyky and Tony have been throwing around could be construde as Treason since their suggestions tend to implicate their government in mass murder of their own people and a coverup. The reason they probably haven't been pulled in on it is because they'd use the argument "The governments trying to suppress the truth" if they were to be brought in. So there they sit, conspiring, waving their rights to Freespeech in peoples faces.

It can be identified that they don't care anything about the truth, because if they did they wouldn't start with the conspiracy of there being bombs. They would start with investigation into the aircrafts, into how they were hijacked, into how they were flown into the buildings (Which I'm sure you've seen the blackbox outputs)

Since their Obsession has blinded them, it means that there is no discussion, just rhetoric like some sort of new age cult. For this reason I am shutting the thread down for the last time. I thank those that did try to seriously entertain their theories and try to dig around for information on things that to be honest aren't even worth looking at.

The 9/11 Conspiracy will no longer be discussed on this forum unless there is some startling new development, which doesn't come from a Truther but from the Government or Press representatives in regards to leaked information. Until that time, please vacate this forum if thats all you've got to talk about.

Whereupon he closed the thread he posted that message in. So this thread may end up closed very soon now. But until it does, I might as well put in my 2 bits. I don't think the higher ups that got them released would like those Israelies brought back. After all, they apparently put in a lot of effort to get them released, as whatreallyhappened.com details in its article The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested On 9-11:

How did they know there would be an event to document on 9/11?

It doesn't take Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots of the dancing Israeli Mossad agents - here's the most logical scenario:

1. The Israeli "movers" cheered the 9-11 attacks to celebrate the successful accomplishment of the greatest spy operation ever pulled off in history.

2. One of them, or an accomplice, then calls a 9-1-1 police dispatcher to report Palestinian bomb-makers in a white van headed for the Holland Tunnel.

3. Having thus pre-framed the Palestinians with this phone call, the Israeli bombers then head for the George Washington Bridge instead, where they will drop off their time-bomb van and escape with Urban Moving accomplices.

4. But the police react very wisely and proactively by closing off ALL bridges and tunnels instead of just the Holland Tunnel. This move inadvertently foils the Israelis' misdirection play and leads to their own capture and 40 day torture.

5. To cover up this story, the U.S. Justice Department rounds up over 1000 Arabs for minor immigration violations and places them in New York area jails. The Israelis therefore become less conspicuous as the government and media can now claim that the Israelis were just immigration violators caught in the same dragnet as many other Arabs.

6. After several months, FBI and Justice Department "higher-ups" are able to gradually push aside the local FBI agents and free the Israelis quietly.

Once they were sent back to Israel, they disagreed that they were laughing or happy on the morning of 9/11. But they did mention something rather interesting, as ABC details in its article Were Israelis Detained on Sept. 11 Spies?:

While the former detainees refused to answer ABCNEWS' questions about their detention and what they were doing on Sept. 11, several of the detainees discussed their experience in America on an Israeli talk show after their return home.

Said one of the men, denying that they were laughing or happy on the morning of Sept. 11, "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event."

I suppose they could argue that they just happened to be at the right place at the right time. There's more but I'll leave it at this for now.

11. it is a good thing you are not a prosecutor.

12. Originally Posted by John99
it is a good thing you are not a prosecutor.
Why is that?

13. you cant convict people because of how you feel.

14. Originally Posted by John99
you cant convict people because of how you feel.
To be sure. But I'm not just going on what I feel. How many of the articles that I've linked to in this thread alone have you read?

15. i read information from many sources.

16. Originally Posted by John99
they were investigated. the thing is that dancing is not a crime.
No, dancing is not a crime. The question is, why were they dancing? Why did they happen to be at that particular place to, as they say, "document the event"?

And there's more to this story as well, which you should know if you'd read the link, The Five Dancing Israelis Arrested On 9-11 that I linked to in a previous post.

As whatreallyhappened.com reports in that article:
The Jerusalem Post later reported that a white van with a bomb was stopped as it approached the George Washington Bridge, but the ethnicity of the suspects was not revealed. Here's what the Jerusalem Post reported on September 12, 2001:

American security services overnight stopped a car bomb on the George Washington Bridge. The van, packed with explosives, was stopped on an approach ramp to the bridge. Authorities suspect the terrorists intended to blow up the main crossing between New Jersey and New York, Army Radio reported. (13)
"...two suspects are in FBI custody after a truckload of explosives was discovered around the George Washington Bridge ... The FBI ... says enough explosives were in the truck to do great damage to the George Washington Bridge."

It was reported the van contained tonnes of explosives (14).

What's really intriguing is that ABC's 20/20 (15), the New York Post (16), and the New Jersey Bergen Record (17) all clearly and unambiguously reported that a white van with Israelis was intercepted on a ramp near Route 3, which leads directly to the Lincoln Tunnel.

But the Jerusalem Post, Israeli National News (Arutz Sheva) (18), and Yediot America, (19) all reported, just as clearly and unambiguously, that a white van with Israelis was stopped on a ramp leading to the George Washington Bridge, which is several miles north of the Lincoln Tunnel.

It appears as if there may actually have been two white vans involved, one stopped on each crossing. This would not only explain the conflicting reports as to the actual location of the arrests, but would also explain how so many credible eye-witnesses all saw celebrating "middle-easterners" in a white van in so many different locations. It also explains why the New York Post and Steve Gordon (lawyer for the 5 Israelis) originally described how three Israelis were arrested but later increased the total to five.

Perhaps one van was meant to drop off a bomb while the other was meant to pick up the first set of drivers while re-crossing back into New Jersey? If a van was to be used as a parked time-bomb on the GW Bridge, then certainly the drivers would need to have a "get-away van" to pick them up and escape. And notice how the van (or vans) stayed away from the third major crossing -the Holland Tunnel- which was where the police had originally been directed to by that anti-Palestinian 9-1-1 "mystery caller". A classic misdirection play.

From there, the story gets even more suspicious. The Israelis worked for a Weehawken moving company known as Urban Moving Systems. An American employee of Urban Moving Systems told the The Record of New Jersey that a majority of his co-workers were Israelis and they were joking about the attacks.
The employee, who declined to give his name said: "I was in tears. These guys were joking and that bothered me." These guys were like, "Now America knows what we go through." (20)
A few days after the attacks, Urban Moving System's Israeli owner, Dominick Suter, dropped his business and fled the country for Israel. He was in such a hurry to flee America that some of Urban Moving System's customers were left with their furniture stranded in storage facilities (21).

Suter's departure was abrupt, leaving behind coffee cups, sandwiches, cell phones and computers strewn on office tables and thousands of dollars of goods in storage. Suter was later placed on the same FBI suspect list as 9/11 lead hijacker Mohammed Atta and other hijackers and suspected al-Qaeda sympathizers, suggesting that U.S. authorities felt Suter may have known something about the attacks. (22)
The Jewish weekly The Forward reported that the FBI finally concluded that at least two of the detained Israelis were agents working for the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency, and that Urban Moving Systems, the ostensible employer of the five Israelis, was a front operation. This was confirmed by two former CIA officers, and they noted that movers' vans are a common intelligence cover. (23). The Israelis were held in custody for 71 days before being quietly released. (24)

"There was no question but that [the order to close down the investigation] came from the White House. It was immediately assumed at CIA headquarters that this basically was going to be a cover-up so that the Israelis would not be implicated in any way in 9/11." (25)

17. Originally Posted by John99
i read information from many sources.
So do I. But how many of the sources that I've provided in this thread have you read?

19. Originally Posted by John99
I know. But you might want to try it some day; you might learn something ;-)

Originally Posted by John99
I assume you're comparing me with the fictional character of Doctor Zhivago, which I believe The Unbearable Lightness of Being was probably atleast in part inspired by (different countries, same doctor torn between 2 women concept). I never read the novel, but I liked the movie of it quite a bit. Perhaps you made the reference because I'm polyamorous? I actually did like 2 women quite a bit; I didn't want to choose between them, but I suppose you could say they somewhat forced my hand.

20. I know. But you might want to try it some day

I assume you're comparing me with the fictional character of Doctor Zhivago, which I believe The Unbearable Lightness of Being was probably atleast in part inspired by (different countries, same doctor torn between 2 women concept). I never read the novel, but I liked the movie of it quite a bit. Perhaps you made the reference because I'm polyamorous? I actually did like 2 women quite a bit; I didn't want to choose between them, but I suppose you could say they somewhat forced my hand.[/

Nope.

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