WTC Collapses

[phlogistician]

You miss the point. You claim this was a put up job by elements of government. Why then would Putin ascribe it to el qaeda?

Because Putin is part of 'The One World Government' that conspires to cover everything up, Roswell, the Royal Family being reptiles, that the Earth is hollow, The DaVinci code, and 9/11.

Sorry, go to go and take my meds.

[John99]

Very funny :-p. My site doesn't contain the information in question. I didn't 'steal' posts, I simply quoted parts of them, and I made it clear where I got the material. Not only that, but a lot of the posts I quote or paraphrase are my own. I was simply trying to put up all the arguments; I stopped a while back because this thread has simply become much too big to put it all in, but I've been thinking of continuing where I left off.

you had every post listed on your site from this thread, like a database. what was the purpose of that?

you do not have permission to reproduce any of my posts.

[John99]

That would not be me. All of my efforts on the 911 issue have been pro bono.

In addition to my time, I actually had a real monetary loss for my efforts. At the request of Professor Graeme MacQueen I gave a talk in Walkerton, Ontario last June, and while I was reimbursed for my airfare and lodging I put the money out for car rental, food, and gas. It was about $400.

Thats too bad Tony. When i was a plumber i go to trade shows and they pay me.

[psikeyhackr]

Can Scott and his fellows explain how Vladimir Putin was able to call Bush the day before the attack to warn that Al Qaeda were planning a major attack for the following day? Or is Putin in on the conspiracy too?

.
I could not care less.

psik

[Headspin]

Can Scott and his fellows explain how Vladimir Putin was able to call Bush the day before the attack to warn that Al Qaeda were planning a major attack for the following day? Or is Putin in on the conspiracy too?

there were about fifteen foreign intelligence agencies that warned the united states of impending attacks.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4663137/Fo...k-Warnings-911

Putin did not telephone the day before on september 10th as far as I know. I suspect the bbc are twisting the facts with that one, or maybe you are just mistaken with the actual date? The russians informed the US in August 2001, some weeks before the attacks.

You claim this was a put up job by elements of government. Why then would Putin ascribe it to el qaeda?

where does putin or the FSB mention "al qaeda" in their warning?

your logic is that if elements of the US government were involved in the attacks, then russian intelligence would have no knowledge of the attacks, I think this is a misplaced belief.

If a deception was being perpetrated in order to blame muslims as a pretext for oil conquest wars, then it would be logical and easy enough to put out warnings into the intelligence community prior to the attacks, which would obviously echo back, just as was done with Douglas Feith's OSP Office of Special Plans in the pentagon with saddams wmd "intelligence" and iraq linked to al qaeda "intelligence".

[John99]

.
I could not care less.

psik

well thats it. spikeyhackr could care less.

[John99]

all hail spikey.

[John99]

do you guys live on a commune?

[scott3x]

Millions? By all means please post your list and i will check to see if i have been to any of your favorite millions of such sites.

In the wait for you to compile your list, I must tell you something. Just a little secret between you and me. The events of 9/11 are important. 9/11 represents a huge toll of human suffering and death, on that day and in the aftermath, and it burns me up to read where some asshole like you makes a joke about woo woo and porn in connection with someone's serious interest in the 9/11 matter.

I think it may be said that John has spent a lot of time in the 9/11 threads precisely because he too thinks it is important. I believe he himself lives in New York and he is also an engineer. He simply takes the view that the official story is right :-p. And I think he's now realized that you're not here to just have some sport with 9/11 as well.

[scott3x]

Thank you for your cordial posts.

You're welcome :-)

Your mention of a debate scenario as you envision it is interesting. I could certainly take the role of a naive party who has a genuine curiosity but a poverty of knowledge.

That's fine. Since the debate must have 2 sides, and I want to take the inside job side, that would leave you with the official story side. You'd just have to mention the elements of the official story that you currently think have merit. If you agree to post one simple post of this nature within a week of me opening the debate thread that I will create, then by all means simply say "I accept" in this thread:
Proposal- Was 9/11 an inside job?

One thing; the debate will focus primarily on things -not- related to the WTC collapses, as there are currently 2 threads discussing the WTC collapses- this one and (what I believe to be a more civil one) over in the Formal Debates forum:
Discussion: How did the WTC buildings collapse?


Anyway, in terms of the 9/11 debate, I could start it off, mentioning the points that support an inside job. We only have to do 1 post each- as a matter of fact, I specified that that would be the length of the debate part of it- after that, an discussion thread can be opened in the formal debates forum and I'd invite anyone who cares to join in a civil manner to do so.

That seems to be my life story. At this moment I cannot say yes or no.

That's fine- I don't think that in a debate one has to be sure about an issue, just to take a particular side initially.

I have tasks that are well defined and of great importance which I am somewhat behind schedule in executing. These tasks must be have primary demand upon my time and energy. I am certainly going to look for a way to add such a debate activity, but it will be day to day for a while before I can agree to discipline enough time to it be able to do it in a worthy manner.

I think a post of this size would have been more then enough for your side of the debate. I'm hoping that the real discussion can go on in the discussion thread which can be opened once the debate begins.

You have a yes, but the timetable is yet to be determined and may honestly be a day or a year.

I'm not sure if it can wait a year in the debate forum- as a matter of fact, James said to give the proposal 2 weeks to produce a debate and today is 2 weeks- I'm going mention that you're interested and ask for an extension and hope I get it :-).

So, thank you very much for asking, continue thinking about it, and who knows but what I might be surprised by a quicker turn of events than i presently pessimistically imagine.

In my new interest and search of information on the internet, including John99 favorite woo woo and porn sites, it seems that the more information I process, the more murky the conclusion is. This may be telling in itself, because you would normally expect that more information would lead to a more well defined conclusion. It would be easy, but rash, to jump to a belief that it becomes more murky because there is deliberate disinformation.

I think there is some truth in the idea that there is disinformation. I think there is also truth that disinformation is most effective when people don't have:

a substantial background in building design, structural design, aircraft design and such like, in addition to a substantial education in basic physics

And even when one does, the answer may still not be apparent.

I have discovered a surprising amount of loose ends in the information re the four famous 9/11 events. There are just too many things that should have been clearly productive of a decisive conclusion, but have instead lead me to a murky indecisiveness.

I can easily understand how someone could believe that the information is unclear because it has been manipulated. But at this time i feel that I am far from being convinced one way or the other.

That's fine. Here's to hoping we open that debate thread today or atleast soon ;-).

[John99]

well then you are wrong on everything you said. when you pm'd me i told you i was there when it happened and i dont live in new york nor do i work as an engineer.

[leopold]

i've noticed that both of my last 2 posts have went unanswered by scott, psikey, and tony.

much like you dismiss the fact that no bomb material has ever been found at ground zero?
don't even try the the "people were barred from entering ground zero" ruse.
within hours of the collapse people from all over the US started arriving at ground zero. the relief effort AND the cleanup was ENTIRELY civilian directed.
yes, the military was there, but their efforts went into dissuading gawkers and souvenir hunters.

i got the above tidbit from a person that was actually there. (of course he was a plant by the government though huh?

"i headed down there about 11, 11:30 that night with camera in my hand.
i literally walked past cops, passed all the military security, and within 10 minutes i found myself right in the middle of ground zero. there were 100's of people there. i just freaked out because i had no idea how bad it was."
-dave goldberg development executive, camera planet.

that's pretty strange behavior from a government that just planted bombs in a building wouldn't you say? to allow just any ol' person with a camera to access ground zero?

[scott3x]

Evidence of explosives used in WTC collapses

This post is in response to leopold99's post 1849 in this thread.

The only solution left at that point is to simply ignore these insult laden posts.

much like you dismiss the fact that no bomb material has ever been found at ground zero?

There's the red chips that Headspin has mentioned in the past. The molten metal seen to be pouring from one of the twin towers is also a definite smoking gun for the use of thermite class materials:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...18450327382904

Here's a good excerpt from an article in prison planet, Scientific Analysis Proves Towers Brought Down By Incendiaries:
******
The material that was first brought into question on the back of photos and video clips of the twin towers showing a dripping molten substance and floating white ash can now be confirmed as being thermate, combining thermite which is used as an incendiary device to bring down structures and sulfur, which cuts through steel quicker and leaves a yellow residue.

Pools of molten yellow metal were also found underneath both towers and Building 7 subsequent to the collapses.

"The evidence points directly to controlled demolition which means an inside job brought these World Trade Center buildings down," Jones told radio host Alex Jones in a video interview.

Jones says that, "using advanced techniques we're finding out what's in these samples - we're finding iron, sulphur, potassium and manganese - these are characteristic of a variation of thermite which is used to cut through steel very rapidly, it's called thermate."

"In order to have thermite in these buildings in this way, to help bring the buildings down, that means that thermite had to be planted in the buildings which of course implies directly an inside job - someone had to have access into the buildings," said Jones.
******

Jones' has conducted over 40 peer reviewed scientific studies, one of which was published in Nature, while another was published in Scientific American.

[scott3x]

well then you are wrong on everything you said. when you pm'd me i told you i was there when it happened and i dont live in new york

Ah, sorry about that.

nor do i work as an engineer.

I didn't say you did; I said you are one.

[John99]

scott, watch the first few seconds of the video. his argument is imbecilic for reasons that have been repeated over and over throughout this thread. Just listen to the first few minutes and think about the reason why it is just such a stupid argument.

Uno hoo doesnt believe a plane hit the Pentagon but where did the passengers and crew who are still missing go to?

Think!

[John99]

Ah, sorry about that.

I didn't say you did; I said you are one.

i said i was one quite a few years ago...

[(Q)]

Jones' has conducted over 40 peer reviewed scientific studies, one of which was published in Nature, while another was published in Scientific American.

Those are merely pop sci magazines, hardly peer review journals.

[(Q)]

Love the new tag: "polyamorous bullshitter" Hilarious and fitting.

[leopold]

Evidence of explosives used in WTC collapses

This post is in response to leopold99's post 1849 in this thread.



There's the red chips that Headspin has mentioned in the past.

yes, found in two apartments and can't be linked to ground zero.

The molten metal seen to be pouring from one of the twin towers is also a definite smoking gun for the use of thermite class materials:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...18450327382904

uh sparks scott. could be nothing more than some pyrotechnics somebody had in their office.
why would the government place thermite where it could easily be found?

Pools of molten yellow metal were also found underneath both towers and Building 7 subsequent to the collapses.

apparently you have no idea how much heat can be generated by a collapse like the WTC.

"The evidence points directly to controlled demolition which means an inside job brought these World Trade Center buildings down," Jones told radio host Alex Jones in a video interview.

actually it does no such thing. no bomb debris was ever found at ground zero scott. bomb debris is direct evidence.

[leopold]

regarding the lack of debris at the pentagon:
the jet is travelling at 800 KPH, that's 497 MPH.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/149644...ll_test_crash/