1] Shown in this diagram below is a light source, in this case a single star surrounded by it's photon light field as suggested by the speckling. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image![constructed image c/o photo shop software] Of course we can not normally see a photon that hasn't impacted on matter so your imagination is required to assume the speckle as the location of photons that are impacting upon objects of imaginary matter. You will also have to imagine that the photons are all travelling outward from the source at the rate of 'c'. It can be reasoned that every speckle of photon light is occurring at the same simultaneous moment. Regardless of location all objects of matter placed in this field will record the light event simultaneously. As time progresses all photons change their location according to their speed of 'c'. All do so simultaneously so that no matter when you take your snap shot, although time has passed the Hyper Surface of the present is still constant universally -------------- 2] This time we have included 6 observers labeled A, B, C, D, E and F in the image below: Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image![constructed image c/o photo shop software] Their relative velocity to each other and to the light source at this stage is not important but can be assumed as zero. Distance from the light source is also unimportant, however what is important is to clearly understand that regardless of distance or velocity of the observers relative to each other and the light source, the photons that are impacting on those observers must do so simultaneously for all observers. As all photon events in the light field are occuring simultaneously then all observers must observe that effect simultaneously. You will notice a clock is included in the image and note that regardless of where the hands are pointing t=t[SUB]hsp[/SUB] for all points in the light field. Extrapolate this fact to every part of this universe [ normal space ] and it can be seen that t=t[SUB]hsp[/SUB] or the NOW is simultaneous for all observers. If all observers where in fact stationary relative to each other and the light source then the passage of time regardless of the metric used would be at the same rate for all observers. However in reality most observers are moving at relative velocity and accordingly their time passage rates are relative yet always maintaining simultaneity of the t=t[sub]hsp[/sub] or "NOW. <>Care to discuss?Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! btw "religious style" arguement will not be accepted. If the logic is not understood then I will be more than happy to explain further Simlpy deal with the logic presented and we might very well achieve something.
Your logic is understood and is appreciated. The problem is that one observer will have trouble agreeing with some other observer about whether one or the other is closer or more distant to the photon source. Simultaneous observation of the spherical wave front will happen to only observers who are a priori equidistant from source. You know, that was not what you were getting at. I don't know what you were getting at.
The moment in question has zero duration in time the photons that appear stationary are actually captured in their travelling at 'c'.
"if all photons in existance exist simultaneously then it follows that absolutely all observations of photons must also" therefore simultaneity is maintained universally. now I am not talking about only one inertial reference frame I am talking about all possible frames regardless of rel. v The issue is simply that if all photons are simultaneous to each other we have a universal light field that is simultaneous with in itself. It follows that any observation of those photons must also be simultaneous. As the light field has zero duration and is constantly changing simultaneously across the entire light field at the rate of 'c' all moments maintain a universal light field of simultaneous photons. this animation shows time in I believe the correct way. t=t [sub]hsp = zero[/sub] Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! and this animation shows time in the SRT way: Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! SRT moves the hyper surface of the present into the future light cone where as I would move the future cone into the HSP. thus to me the NOW is stationary and always central in eternity, a constantly changing event horizon t=0 [ light and observer premised where as for SRT it is constantly moving into the future. t= hsp [ observer premised only.]
Ben the man or some math guru will probably be able to correct this construction but I descibe it this way mathematically we have a universe of photons expressed as follows: (x [SUB]i[/SUB] , y [SUB]i [/SUB], z [SUB]i[/SUB] , t [SUB]A[/SUB]) we also have the same for all possible observers (x [SUB]i'[/SUB] , y [SUB]i' [/SUB], z [SUB]i'[/SUB] , t [SUB]hsp[/SUB]) now if you superimpose both sets of co-ordinants to show both the simultaneity of photons and observers. Phs = (x [SUB]i,i'[/SUB] , y [SUB]i,i' [/SUB], z [SUB]i,i'[/SUB] , t [SUB]phs[/SUB]) you can see that both observers and photons are simultaneous in t=t [SUB]phs[/SUB] note: where i is relevant to photons and i' is relevant to observers and phs = present hyper surface to avoid conflicting with SRT's HSP the use of i is apparently i= 1 to N [ infinitey or at least nearly so.] Apologies to the math gurus as this is a really naive attempt to show some math that I was briefly taught about 3 days ago. keeping in mind that the PHS [HSP] has a duration of zero.
I didn't see this thread originally. The problem seems to be that QQ is confusing different photons seen by different observers. Observers at different locations will detect different photons, not the same photon. Even if they are all detecting photons at the same time, nothing follows from that because they are all different photons.
probably just as well JamesR. The issue however has sort of been resolved in that when discussing the photon sphere in conjuction with the HSP one can say that relative simultaneity may be valid however non-simultaneity may be debateable. Either way it fails to prove SRT invalid or logically inconsistant but it does open a new line of enquiry that may lead to some better understanding of how SRT is fudging relative simultaneity when in fact time is still absolute any ways, just given a new title instead. [ fudging the issue means to basically claim a pheno when in fact that pheno is not quite as radical as it is claimed. relative simultaneity can be achieved in an absolute zero moment time frame but then again relative simultaneity of HSP's is not non-simultaneity of HSP's But relative simultaneity "within" hsp's which happen to coincide at the same zero duration moment of the present for any RF. So therefore the issue is relative simultaneity is a bit of a fudge...IMO Any ways I am not going to go on and explain fully my opinion as it wont matter in the end any ways....
