10-07-08, 10:42 PM #1
State of Mind
How do you describe a person's mental state when said individual is a Scientologist and believes in the existence of the alien OverLord Xenu (pbuh) and his Prophet Ron Hubbard (pbuh)?
Would you say this person is religiously devout?
Would you say they are brainwashed?
Are they enlightened or deluded?
Suppose said individual lost the ability to recognize simple facts. Such as this: It is possible that there is no Xenu. It is possible that Rob Hubbard made it all up. It is even possible that some of the Scientologists after Ron Hubbard added to it, canonized it and they made some of it up as well.
If said individual can not recognize these potential facts are they what? Nuts? Pious? Brainwashed? Devote? What exactly?
Suppose said individual was so deep in the beleif of Scientology they refused to recognize that the possibility could exist that Xenu was not real. They were basically living day to day praying to Xenu, worrying about what Xenu thought of them, telling people about Xenu, talking about how society would be better if only everyone would follow the true teachings of Ron Hubbard... what then?
How would you describe their State of Mind?
10-07-08, 10:54 PM #2
generally people ascribe their state of mind to their experiences and values.
I mean, you could talk why it may be crazy for you to be a scientologist (by dint of your experiences and values), but if you want to call in question a particular person, you would get a different picture.
Its a common misconception that religious congregations are homogeneous (ie to talk of the "scientologist" and why they are one) - anyone who has had any indepth experience with congregations can understand this.
10-07-08, 11:17 PM #3
OK, I'm asking you how would YOU describe the above mentioned state of mind? From your experiences.
I'd say there's a difference between a Scientologist who recognizes that yes their beleif in Xenu may be wrong but still maintain it (as in they have faith that is it correct) and someone who can not recognize their beleif may indeed be wrong and Xenu, well, He just might not really exist.
Wouldn't you agree that the two people have different states of mind regarding their beleif?
10-08-08, 01:46 AM #4
I think what you are getting at is simply the differentiation between realization and blind belief. Even oneself can have much difficulty to distinguish between the two.
However, for an external observer, it is usually impossible to correctly assess whether a person indeed has realization, or whether they are merely in a state of blind belief.
There really isn't much to say about this, other than actually taking up the practices oneself that the other person says they have taken them up, and seeing where they lead one.
Otherwise, talking about these things is a waste of time.
10-08-08, 05:45 PM #5
I think the Scientologist herein described, has to a degree, lost their logical state of thinking - when said thinking involves Xenu. I'm sure on other subjects they could think logically, but, in regards to Xenu ... they can not. Other than this they could live day to day as rationally as the rest of us, which is why we're are so loath to suggest they are nuts. In all outward appearances they seem rational. And for most cases they probably are. But when it comes to Xenu, then things in their mind breakdown. Logical thought processes are somehow lost.
For the most part, most Scientologist live their religous life away from the normal day to day life. This is because most people are kind of creeped out when they see someone praying to Xenu. Scientologist understand this and hide it from us.
I imagine that for another theist, it must be extremely unsettling - as they themselves are praying just as fervently to their own Xenu or YWHA or Allah or who have you.
That may be, at least one reason why people kill people of their faiths? When all things are considered equal. It could also be why scull caps, burkas, flying-saucer hats etc... are worn. To announce to the world: I'm so deep in this shit I want everyone to know about it, and I'm happy to take the heat. In a sense, such a person is saying they understand it puts many people off, but they don't care. They want us to know that they've thought about it and they want to wear the little flying saucer hat anyway. Well, unless they were taught, from childhood, that they must wear the little flying saucer cap or Xenu will be displease.. that's any altogether different situation.
I wonder, could it be considered child abuse to teach children that not wearing the little flying saucer cap will make Xenu very very mad? Even if it means this child will be the butt of many jokes at school? It could be good for the cult, you see, it segregates this child from the rest, she or he will more than likely only form a tight relationship within the community. Especially if said community is large enough to actually ostracize him or her. Especially if said community kills people for not wearing this little flying saucer cap.
Last edited by Michael; 10-08-08 at 05:55 PM.
10-08-08, 07:34 PM #6
10-08-08, 08:22 PM #7
Yes but I hated to see Tom's beliefs so criticized while apparently accepting christianity as logical.
Last edited by StrangerInAStrangeLa; 10-08-08 at 08:48 PM.
10-08-08, 08:42 PM #8
Also, I'll copy this over from another thread:
Imagine if there existed a group of people who worshiped Xenu and another who worshiped Zenu. In one situation they teach their children that ALL Alien Overlords are allowed to be worshiped and it's OK that other people worship Zenu. In another situation they instead insist on teaching their children that ONLY Xenu is the True Alien OverLord! Only their Book is the Perfect book! The Xur'an is the TRUE word of Xenu via an intergalactic mind-beam and into Ron Hubbard (pbuh) head!!! Next we see Xenuists murdering people of the Zenu. Slitting their throats and cutting off their head all while screaming "Xenu is Great!" "Xenu is Great!"
If we are going to teach illogical thinking, then I would hope we would at least try to make such superstitions as gentle as possible - keep repeating it's wrong to kill, it's wrong to kill, it's wrong to kill, so that people don't do it.
Actually, Tom (pbuh) is just going nuts period, on the backdrop of Scientology it's sort of funny.
10-08-08, 08:56 PM #9
I doubt he's a billionaire but that's not crucial.
Fair call but he's going nuts??? He's no more nuts than 85% of people.
Christians call Scientology a cult but the only reason they get away with that is most people is the USA are christian. There's no logic to it but they can't see it due to their blinders.
10-08-08, 10:09 PM #10
I was thinking having lived a couple of decades in Hollywood would probably drive anyone nuts.
That's funny about Christians. During the Roman Empire THEY were the cult. They were also called atheists for denying the Gods. That said, Roman society was becoming more monotheistic anyway, even without Xainity Sol Invictus was already becoming a redeeming mono-God for Romans.
10-09-08, 03:53 AM #11
Christians kidnap a cultist friend or relative & deprogram them using mainly The Holy Babble not realizing they need deprogramming also.
10-09-08, 04:58 AM #12
10-09-08, 08:38 AM #13
or someone who believe that on Sunday they eat the body of Christ?
or someone who believes that the US is a democracy?
or someone who believes they are really just complicated machines?
10-09-08, 05:54 PM #14
10-09-08, 08:01 PM #15
10-09-08, 10:34 PM #16
Humans are organic machines.
10-10-08, 01:23 AM #17
Applying logical reasoning without this reasoning being informed by goals and values, leads to decay and decadence. There is no guarantee that if one simply reasons logically, one will have a "good life" or be happy.
10-10-08, 06:53 PM #18
10-10-08, 07:32 PM #19How do you describe a person's mental state when said individual is a Scientologist and believes in the existence of the alien OverLord Xenu (pbuh) and his Prophet Ron Hubbard (pbuh)?
10-10-08, 09:10 PM #20
greenberg There is no guarantee that if one simply reasons logically, one will have a "good life" or be happy.
Seems to be working for me. Epicurus managed nicely. Oh, the list goes on, but if you really want guarantees religion is happy to give you as many false ones as you need.
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