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Thread: Beyond Comprehension

  1. #1
    It is very dry in here today PsychoticEpisode's Avatar
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    Beyond Comprehension

    Why is it when an argument gets real close to refuting God that He suddenly is beyond comprehension? How far into an argument must a non-believer be when the words, 'The Lord works in mysterious ways" come about.

    Take killing people for instance....not ok for us but for God it's anything goes. I know there's been a million debates on that subject but at some point in each discussion, when it becomes abundantly clear that no defender of the righteous can explain divine atrocities involving death, then all of a sudden it's beyond anyone's comprehension of how God works.

    In retrospect, it seems that if God does something that suits the believer then it is completely understandable. People don't seem to have a problem understanding God when He is supposedly up to some good.

    Most believers tend to think that children are God's special gift but if a child is allowed to suffer for whatever reason then God is either in His mysterious mode or He's ok with it for a reason we can't have any comprehension of. If it becomes apparent that God is involved in some evil stuff then the conversation will turn to the right of the divine to be incomprehensible. There must be a law that states for everything that's good there is an understanding of God whereas for anything that is bad there is a misconception of how God works.... seems pretty cut and dried.

    I think the Bible is a direct result.... not of God being beyond comprehension but the world itself. Plus how can a Bible be credible if its main character is incomprehensible? But could the Bible have been written any other way? Probably not. It is a book about two incomprehensibles, the world and its explanation. Scientific discovery is changing that balance and God is losing out. We are no longer satisfied or trusting with the incomprehensible and many leaving the flocks for atheism are realizing that there are explanations for things once thought beyond comprehension.

  2. #2
    The problem is that you cannot prove God, but God cannot be disproven, either. Asking,"Why?" is foolish. If the president won't answer you, why would a God?

  3. #3
    It is very dry in here today PsychoticEpisode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XPsyrixX View Post
    If the president won't answer you, why would a God?
    When did they join the forum?

    Asking,"Why?" is foolish
    What?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by XPsyrixX View Post
    The problem is that you cannot prove God, but God cannot be disproven, either.
    the way god is defined its impossible to be real
    heres your disproof

    http://www.evilbible.com/Impossible.htm

    or did you have a different god in mind

    www.godchecker.com

  5. #5
    MY COHERENCE! IT'S GOING AWAYY Betrayer0fHope's Avatar
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    God, by definition, is impossible. A great way to make those "god's plan"ers think is to present them with Betrayer's Challenge

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoticEpisode View Post
    Why is it when an argument gets real close to refuting God that He suddenly is beyond comprehension? How far into an argument must a non-believer be when the words, 'The Lord works in mysterious ways" come about.

    Take killing people for instance....not ok for us but for God it's anything goes. I know there's been a million debates on that subject but at some point in each discussion, when it becomes abundantly clear that no defender of the righteous can explain divine atrocities involving death, then all of a sudden it's beyond anyone's comprehension of how God works.

    In retrospect, it seems that if God does something that suits the believer then it is completely understandable. People don't seem to have a problem understanding God when He is supposedly up to some good.

    Most believers tend to think that children are God's special gift but if a child is allowed to suffer for whatever reason then God is either in His mysterious mode or He's ok with it for a reason we can't have any comprehension of. If it becomes apparent that God is involved in some evil stuff then the conversation will turn to the right of the divine to be incomprehensible. There must be a law that states for everything that's good there is an understanding of God whereas for anything that is bad there is a misconception of how God works.... seems pretty cut and dried.

    I think the Bible is a direct result.... not of God being beyond comprehension but the world itself. Plus how can a Bible be credible if its main character is incomprehensible? But could the Bible have been written any other way? Probably not. It is a book about two incomprehensibles, the world and its explanation. Scientific discovery is changing that balance and God is losing out. We are no longer satisfied or trusting with the incomprehensible and many leaving the flocks for atheism are realizing that there are explanations for things once thought beyond comprehension.
    2 quick points

    1 - science sits smack bang in the middle of incomprehension

    2 - Much like science, when one has sufficient comprehension on the subject, progress becomes possible .... I mean try teaching advanced physics to 8 year olds and see how far you get

  7. #7
    It is very dry in here today PsychoticEpisode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightgigantic View Post
    2 quick points

    1 - science sits smack bang in the middle of incomprehension
    I should hope so. Comprehending our world is much different than comprehending an absent invisible Creator God. Clarity over blind acceptance is the rule.

    2 - Much like science, when one has sufficient comprehension on the subject, progress becomes possible .... I mean try teaching advanced physics to 8 year olds and see how far you get
    Religion has been trying that approach for thousands of years. As a result we've got you and your ilk to contend with, not easy.

    Note: I have a lot of confidence in what an 8 year old mind can accomplish. If we could ever filter out some idiotic ideologies currently suppressing a young minds advancement, then who knows where it could go. Personally I advocate less time spent in such endeavors and letting the kids develop socially.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by lightgigantic View Post
    2 - Much like science, when one has sufficient comprehension on the subject, progress becomes possible .... I mean try teaching advanced physics to 8 year olds and see how far you get
    Oh brother... Strap in, sit back, and enjoy another ride on the qualifications roller-coaster. I'll just watch.

  9. #9
    Betrayer's Challenge?

  10. #10
    Psychotic episode


    2 quick points

    1 - science sits smack bang in the middle of incomprehension

    I should hope so. Comprehending our world is much different than comprehending an absent invisible Creator God. Clarity over blind acceptance is the rule.
    gee, I wonder how much of science would be comprehended if it began from the premise that it was absent and invisible ...


    2 - Much like science, when one has sufficient comprehension on the subject, progress becomes possible .... I mean try teaching advanced physics to 8 year olds and see how far you get

    Religion has been trying that approach for thousands of years. As a result we've got you and your ilk to contend with, not easy.
    I guess an easy way to can any claim to knowledge is to blindly advocate that it has no issues of comprehension to act as a foundation

    Note: I have a lot of confidence in what an 8 year old mind can accomplish.
    and is studying post graduate physics a major one?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by superluminal View Post
    Oh brother... Strap in, sit back, and enjoy another ride on the qualifications roller-coaster. I'll just watch.
    what can I say?
    standard fallacious arguments require standard rebuttals.

  12. #12
    It is very dry in here today PsychoticEpisode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightgigantic View Post
    gee, I wonder how much of science would be comprehended if it began from the premise that it was absent and invisible ...
    The trouble is, it isn't. If it was, then we could make it a God or something along those lines.

    guess an easy way to can any claim to knowledge is to blindly advocate that it has no issues of comprehension to act as a foundation
    That would make a nice disclaimer. However blind acceptance is the avenue of approach for religion. The Earth is flat by the way.

    Note: I have a lot of confidence in what an 8 year old mind can accomplish. ”

    and is studying post graduate physics a major one?
    If religious philosophy can be grasped by a 4 your old then why tell him God is incomprehensible? I'd sooner teach the kid physics.

  13. #13
    Psychotic Episode
    Originally Posted by lightgigantic
    gee, I wonder how much of science would be comprehended if it began from the premise that it was absent and invisible ...


    The trouble is, it isn't.
    and surprisingly enough, your suggestions on the nature of god suffer from the same flaw

    guess an easy way to can any claim to knowledge is to blindly advocate that it has no issues of comprehension to act as a foundation

    That would make a nice disclaimer. However blind acceptance is the avenue of approach for religion.
    well welcome to the club, I guess


    The Earth is flat by the way.
    and heliocentrism?

    (btw is that another antagonistic stab at xtianity in the name of deeply-dying-the-entire-length-and-breadth-of-all-that-is-claimed-under-the-banner-of-theism I see sprouting from your keyboard again .....)

    Note: I have a lot of confidence in what an 8 year old mind can accomplish. ”

    and is studying post graduate physics a major one?

    If religious philosophy can be grasped by a 4 your old then why tell him God is incomprehensible?
    its simple for the simple hearted


    I'd sooner teach the kid physics.
    post graduate physics?
    meh
    poor kid

  14. #14
    It is very dry in here today PsychoticEpisode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lightgigantic View Post
    and heliocentrism?
    (btw is that another antagonistic stab at xtianity in the name of deeply-dying-the-entire-length-and-breadth-of-all-that-is-claimed-under-the-banner-of-theism I see sprouting from your keyboard again .....)
    Maybe, but it made me think. Which of all the religions is the easiest to poke a hole in? Should make it a new thread.

    Personally I don't mind the Xians, I actually don't think of them as the worst man has to offer. Their God on the other hand, well, He needs some work. Too weak to be a divinity of choice in my humblest opinion. Maybe that's why He has to be labelled incomprehensible, a prequisite for such a tag being He does or says so many ungodlike things that followers aren't given much choice.

  15. #15
    until the end of the world greenberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoticEpisode View Post
    Which of all the religions is the easiest to poke a hole in?
    Certainly not fire and brimstone Christiany. Because fire and brimstone Christianity is based on the assumption that fear and urgency can make the best decisions - and as long one is subject to aging, illness, and death, subject to change, subject to having wealth and losing wealth, subject to gaining status and losing status - this long one is subject to fear and urgency, not having transcended them.

    To really - realistically, practically, not just intellectually - refute fire and brimstone Christianity, one would have to be beyond fear and urgency.

  16. #16
    Fear is the root of evil.

  17. #17
    until the end of the world greenberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa View Post
    Fear is the root of evil.
    How come?
    Do explain.

  18. #18
    The idea of a god might not be so hard to comprehend. A god is something that doesnt exist in any apparent way, but in concept it does exist and since its a concept without a firm definition, any imaginable conditions and attributes can be applied to it on a whim. It doesnt need to make sense like something that actually exists in the real world. Anyone can say anything they like about a god and it affects absolutely nothing more than conversation.

  19. #19
    It is very dry in here today PsychoticEpisode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VossistArts View Post
    Anyone can say anything they like about a god and it affects absolutely nothing more than conversation.
    Sounds so simple and yet I wish it were true.

    Try being Salmon Rushdie or a Danish cartoonist.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoticEpisode View Post
    Maybe, but it made me think. Which of all the religions is the easiest to poke a hole in? Should make it a new thread.
    new thread?
    maybe you could call it "sciforums greatest hits" or "now for the thread that has always been on our minds - judging the religious genre by its worst possible stereotype"

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