The historical Jesus didn't create a new religion!

This post we about the historical Jesus . who was he? Did he or his followers create a new religion? According to historical scholarship [sources: see at the bottom of this post] he practised what corresponds to today’s Orthodox Judaism all his life. His followers were called Netzarim – that is Hebrew [it means offshoot (of a olive tree)] and is a name in the Jewish
Bible that is used for Messiah.

During the first century those who practised Judaism were very devoted their religion. Just like King David and all other Jews throughout history they practised Torah (Instruction) – the Instructions of the Creator – with joy! The most prominent university professors in this field Prof. Elisha Qimron , author of the most authoritative treatise on 4Q MMT, demonstrates that all three of the major sects of first century Judaism followed both written and oral Torah.
Louis Feldman (”The Omnipresence of the G*od-Fearers,” Biblical Archaeology Review, 1986.09-10, p. 45, 58ff) observes: “the Jews were apparently extraordinarily successful in winning converts”

Year 7 B.C.E Ribi Yehoshua were born in Bethlehem. His father name was Yoseiph and his mothers name was Miryam. His parents were practising Jews.
According to world-recognized authorities in this area Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee (a Torah-practising Jewish group - who according to 4Q MMT practised both written and oral Torah). As the earliest church historians, most eminent modern university historians, our web site (The only authentic Netzarim - i.e. in Ra'anana in Israel led by Paqid Yirmeyahu ha-Tzadiq) and our Khavruta (Distance Learning) texts confirm, the original teachings of Ribi Yehoshua were not only accepted by most of the Pharisaic Jewish community, he had hoards of Jewish students.

He took care of sick and made it popular among the masses to pray in what corresponds to today’s Orthodox synagogues. The genealogically non-priest, Hellenist “Wicked Priest” Temple-Sadducees felt that their power was threaten by Ribi Yehoshua. They decided to get him crucified by the Romans. The Romans convicted and crucified Ribi Yehoshua year 30
C.E.

Ribi Yehoshua’s followers Netzarim were expelled from Jerusalem 135 C.E: together with all other Jews. The first Christian bishop Markos replaced the fifteenth leader of Netzarim Yehudah, ha-Tzadiq. This Christian bishop didn’t have permission to do this. What the Paul the apostate and later the founder of Christianity did was to take some concepts that Ribi Yehoshua had taught; they Hellenized the concepts and included them in the religion which they practiced – Hellenism – the religion of the Greeks. (Sources: See Ecclesiastical History (EH IV.v.1-4; EH V.xii.1) )

Anyone educated in this field knows that the only sect of Judaism that had rabbis was the Pharisee and even the Christian NT described him as a rabbi. Parkes, Bagatti, Wilson, Charlesworth; all world-recognized authorities in this area leave no doubt that Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee, of the school of Hileil - who was also Pharisee. There is no serious dispute about that among scholars in the field. Ribi Yehoshua taught in "synagogues"; which were a strictly Pharisee institution.

Following the teachings of the Judaic Mâshiakh (Messiah) Ribi Yehoshua – that is doing one’s utmost to practice the 613 commandments of Torah - also brings the inner joy, purpose and happiness of working intimately with him to bring about, and participate in, the Messianic era, enjoying a higher level of communion with ha-Sheim - the Creator - as party to Yirmeyâhu's (Jeremiah’s) New Covenant.

If you want to learn about the Historical Ribi Yehoshua, whose followers Orthodox Jews can live with (witness the Netzarim Jews in Raanana, Israel, members in good standing in an Orthodox synagogue), you must start with books like How Jesus Became Christian by Prof. Barrie Wilson (most bookstores) and Who Are The Netzarim? (publ. Schueller House) by Israeli Orthodox Jew, Paqid Yirmeyahu Ben-David.

Finding the historical Jew, who was a Pharisee Ribi and following him brings you into Torah, which gives you a rich and meaningful life here on earth and great rewards in life after death (“heaven”)!

From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav of Netzarim in Ra'anana in Israel who are follower of Ribi Yehoshua - Messiah - in Orthodox Judaism

 

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Yes, he would have considered himself Jewish, but he had some unorthodox ideas. He wasn't afraid to subvert the authority of the priests that ran the Temple, for instance.

 

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It was 'unorthodox' to be in opposition to the Hellenist priesthood.

Spidergoat writes: “Yes, he would have considered himself Jewish, but he had some unorthodox ideas. He wasn't afraid to subvert the authority of the priests that ran the Temple, for instance.”

Your lack of historical knowledge in this area makes you assuming that it was 'unorthodox' to be in opposition to the Hellenist priesthood.

“It was the Hellenized pseudo-Sadducee priests of the Temple, whom both the Pharisees and Khasidim Qumran Sadducees called "Wicked Priests," in collusion with the Hellenist Romans. The rabbis, by contrast, argued in the Sanhedrin that the Hellenist pseudo-Sadducees should stop persecuting the followers of Ribi Yehoshua (the Netzarim) and, later when a Hellenist pseudo-Sadducee Wicked Priest, Ananos, murdered the leader of the Netzarim and brother of Ribi Yehoshua, Paqid Yaaqov ha-Tzadiq, it was the rabbis who condemned the murder in a Roman court, causing King Agrippa to depose Ananos. Before the forcible Hellenist Roman gentile takeover in the wake of 135 C.E., which created Hellenist Roman gentile Christianity and the Church, the rabbis were proven friends of the Netzarim.“ [quote: Paqid Yirmeyahu ha-Tzadiq]

Read more at our below website; click at the link to the letter “K” in our Glossaries (in the first page); than scroll down to “Ko•hein′”.

From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav, Netzarim (website found by google at Netzarim, Restored 'Nazarene Jews' of Israel; be sure to avoid self-proclaimed fake-Netzarim with no connection to Orthodox Judaism) in Ra’anana in Israel who are followers of Ribi Yehoshua – the Messiah – in Orthodox Judaism

 

OK, interesting point. I maintain he was still rather unorthodox. For another instance, consider this passage in the Gospel of Thomas:

His disciples said to Him, "Is circumcision beneficial or
not?"
He said to them, "If it were beneficial, their father would
beget them already circumcised from their mother. Rather, the
true circumcision in spirit has become completely profitable."

 

1. Welcome to the forums. Watch out for the rabid atheists.

2. I am a gentile. By what I have read in the New Testament, it was through the crucifixtion of Jesus that I got access to salvation. His followers, most specifically Paul, called themselves followers of "the way". He was one of the main people to bring the message of the Jewish Messiah, and his gift of salvation to the local gentiles.

I am unclear as to whether you are suggesting that chritianity, a name given to the beliefs of the followers of christ by the romans, is true or false. Which is it?

 

You lost me here.
Paul, the apostle, did this 100 years after Jesus' death?

 

What is ecclesiastical history, exactly? It is surprisingly detailed for a historical text. On what basis do you found your faith in this ecclesiastical history?

 

Just a quick question of clarity here, are you talking about history or scriptural history? History doesn't provide us anything to show Jesus or Moses actually existed, so it is assumed you're talking about scriptural history.

 

Come now, Hammy, you don't honestly believe we're out to slit your throats, or something along that line, do you? :mufc:

 

I am refering to Scholars whose research implies that Ribi Yehoshua existed and were

Q,

Read my post more carefully and it's obvious what I am talking about.

I wrote: "Anyone educated in this field knows that the only sect of Judaism that had rabbis was the Pharisee and even the Christian NT described him as a rabbi. Parkes, Bagatti, Wilson, Charlesworth; all world-recognized authorities in this area leave no doubt that Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee, of the school of Hileil - who was also Pharisee. There is no serious dispute about that among scholars in the field. Ribi Yehoshua taught in "synagogues"; which were a strictly Pharisee institution."

I am refering to Scholars whose research implies that Ribi Yehoshua existed and were a Torah-practising Jew.

If you state otherwise; you diverge from what Scholar in leading universites states - therfore the burden of proof is on you!

From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav, Netzarim (website found by google at Netzarim, Restored 'Nazarene Jews' of Israel; be sure to avoid self-proclaimed fake-Netzarim with no connection to Orthodox Judaism) in Ra’anana in Israel who are followers of Ribi Yehoshua – the Messiah – in Orthodox Judaism

 

Thanks,

From Anders Branderud
Geir Toshav, Netzarim in Ra’anana in Israel (website found by google at Netzarim, Restored 'Nazarene Jews' of Israel; be sure to avoid self-proclaimed fake-Netzarim with no connection to Orthodox Judaism) who are followers of Ribi Yehoshua – the Messiah – in Orthodox Judaism

 

There was a historical Jesus?

 

Ah, it's scriptural history, not history, so it's irrelevant. Thanks.

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The problem with history is that we can never know if anything or any person actually existed. Q, how do we know Constantine existed? Or King George the III?

 

Historical record. Of which there are none concerning Jesus. There was one fake, and another that mentioned "Cristos", but none that mentioned Jesus by name. All the people that wrote of historical figures in Jesus' era never wrote of Jesus himself, making it hard to believe that he actually existed. I mean, feel free to believe he did, I'm just saying that there are no historical records of him outside of scripture, which was written long after he had died...if he in fact ever lived.

 

What "historical records" are there of Constantine? A statue, some artwork, and additions in a history book. Those can all be fabricated.

 

Corroborating physical evidence from a number of varying sources.

It's interesting to note that archeological evidence for a "Christian culture" didn't begin to appear till about 180 CE. Before that, nothing could be found that was indistinguishable from everyday life of that time, even though Paul sanctioned Christianity long before that.

And it was around 313 CE where Christianity took it's form we see today, with Constantine at the helm.

 

Trying to sell short the evidence for the existence of Constantine will do you no good here. We try to use logic in our conversations, not twisted suppositions based on ignorance and agenda.

You know damn well that there is plenty of evidence for Constantine, and none for your precious Jesus.

 

Of course it will do good; the point is: we can't know much of history that we havent' lived through.

Any "evidence" for any historical figure can easily be fabricated. That's my point. So how do we seperate fact from fiction?