What have the Republicans brought to the United States during their rule?

[Buffalo Roam]

Now for some facts, where was your first fact? Everything you have posted just supports what I have said. The Clinton administration said it did not have enough to indict Bin Ladin. And you have failed again to produce said facts. For the last time, show where Clinton had a legal basis to arrest and prosecute Bin Lading in 2006?

Obtuse, aren't you, absolutely obtuse.

Even if that was true — and it wasn't — the U.S. could have turned bin Laden over to Yemen or Libya, both of which had valid warrants for his arrest stemming from terrorist activities in those countries.

[CheskiChips]

Chekichips it is you who knows nothing about finance nor economics. I have degrees in each.

"Debt" doesn't mean anything if your commodity you're trading is securities"

On what planet to you live? Why should we even bother paying back debt if it does not matter? There has long been a demand for the dollar and the dollar has function as the international reserve currency. But that has nothing to do with the topic at hand. The interest on the debt has to be paid. That occurs through one of two ways, increased taxes or printing more money. It is an expense...period. Printing money is inflationary, taxing is deflationary. So how can you say, it does not matter?

Get your head our of your rectum. And because the dollar has historically been the reserve currency, it does not mean it will always be the reserve currency. Reserve currency status came with the conclusion of WW II when the United States was the only major industrial power left intact. That is no longer the case. Most notably, the biggest competitor to the dollar is the Euro. When the Euro was first issued, it traded for something less than a dollar...today it trades in excess of 1.50 dollars per Euro. The dollar has falled in value for a number of reasons. But essentially means just one thing, international investors have less demand for the dollar today than they did a year ago or even a few months ago.

Israel is a chief beneficiary of American government largess. If you are from Israel don't lie to Americans. And you are not entitled to bring our country down in order to support your poltical and religious ambitions. The economic problems currently faced by the United States have nothing to do with the Middle East other than it is huge source of American expenditures. And that has to stop!

Where did you graduate, Mecca University? You're speaking of old-school economics, I am a speaking of modern-economics. What's taught in school isn't what happens in the real world, atleast not what happens in European and American economics. Which is basically nothing like it's intended to be.

[spidergoat]

Buffalo, you've got to stop believing the Con lies. Sudan was a terrorist nation itself. The offer to arrest Bin Laden was a sceme to deflect attention away from that fact. In any case, they were in no position to get Bin Laden, do you think that would have been easy?

Clinton tried to assassinate Bin Laden more than once, but our intelligence wasn't good enough. It still isn't, apparently. Has Bush treating this as something other than a law-enforcement matter helped any?

[Buffalo Roam]

Clinton had a sealed indictment, so no he didn't have a reason to refuse taking Bin Laden, into custody.

1. At all relevant times from in or about 1989 untilthe date of the filing of this
Indictment, an international terrorist group existed which was dedicated to
opposing non-Islamic governments with force and violence. This organization
grew out of the "mekhtab al khidemat" (the "Services Office") organization
which had maintained (and continues to maintain) offices in various parts of
the world, including Afghanistan, Pakistan (particularly in Peshawar) and the
United States, particularly at the Alkifah Refugee Center in Brooklyn. From in
or about 1989 until the present, the group called itself "Al Qaeda" ("the Base").


A sealed indictment opened 4. Nov. 1998

[Original date unknown; unsealed 4 November 1998]


4 November 1998
Source: Hardcopy, US Attorney, SDNY, press conference. Thanks to MS/HH,(212) 637-2600.

See related indictment of today Usama Bin Laden and five others: http://jya.com/usa-v-laden+5.htm
See related press release: http://jya.com/usa110498.htm
See related files: http://jya.com/alqfiles.htm



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Original date unknown; unsealed 4 November 1998]


UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
-----------------------------------------x
:
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
:
- v. -
:
USAMA BIN LADEN, INDICTMENT
a/k/a "Usamah Bin-Muhammad :
Bin-Ladin," 98 Cr.
a/k/a "Shaykh Usamah Bin-Ladin," :
a/k/a "Mujahid Shaykh,"
a/k/a "Abu Abdullah" :
a/k/a "Qa Qa,"
:
Defendant.
-----------------------------------------x

COUNT ONE
Conspiracy to Attack Defense Utilities of the United States

The Grand Jury charges:

Background: Al Qaeda

1. At all relevant times from in or about 1989 until

the date of the filing of this Indictment, an international

terrorist group existed which was dedicated to opposing non-Islamic

governments with force and violence. This organization grew out of

the "mekhtab al khidemat" (the "Services Office") organization

which had maintained (and continues to maintain) offices in various

parts of the world, including Afghanistan, Pakistan (particularly

in Peshawar) and the United States, particularly at the Alkifah

Refugee Center in Brooklyn. From in or about 1989 until the

present, the group called itself "Al Qaeda" ("the Base"). From

1989 until in or about 1991, the group was headquartered in

Afghanistan and Peshawar, Pakistan. In or about 1992, the

leadership of Al Qaeda, including its "emir" (or prince) USAMA BIN

LADEN, the defendant, and its military command relocated to the


[1]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sudan. From in or about 1991 until the present, the group also

called itself the "Islamic Army." The international terrorist

group (hereafter referred to as "Al Qaeda") was headquartered in

the Sudan from approximately 1992 until approximately 1996 but

still maintained offices in various parts of the world. In 1996,

USAMA BIN LADEN and Al Qaeda relocated to Afghanistan. At all

relevant times, Al Qaeda was led by its "emir," USAMA BIN LADEN.

[Buffalo Roam]

Buffalo, you've got to stop believing the Con lies. Sudan was a terrorist nation itself. The offer to arrest Bin Laden was a sceme to deflect attention away from that fact. In any case, they were in no position to get Bin Laden, do you think that would have been easy?

Clinton tried to assassinate Bin Laden more than once, but our intelligence wasn't good enough. It still isn't, apparently. Has Bush treating this as something other than a law-enforcement matter helped any?

No it's the Neo-Liberal Lies that we need to stop believeng.

[spidergoat]

No one had him in custody. It wasn't just a choice of getting him or not. Should we have dealt with the terrorists of Sudan just to get a terrorist?

[Buffalo Roam]

No one had him in custody. It wasn't just a choice of getting him or not. Should we have dealt with the terrorists of Sudan just to get a terrorist?

Yes, keep drinking the kool aid.

Clinton him self said Osama was offered up to Him.

It was recorded, and in Bill own words, there was a sealed indictment, so Clinton had no excuse not to accept the offer, wether Osama was in custody or not.

I can just see you in full attack, if the name was Bush instead of Clinton.

[Buffalo Roam]

All Counsel of Record Re: US v. Omar Ahmad Ali Abdel Rahman, et al. (S5) 93 Cr. 181 (MBM)

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Enclosed is a list of unindicted persons who may be alleged as co-conspirators. The list is not exhaustive and, as is always the case, the government's investigation is continuing........ If we discover missing names they will be added.

Very truly yours,


Mary Jo White, US Attorney


Signed by Andrew C. McCarthy, Assistant US Attorney
cc: Honorable Michael B. Mukasey, US District Judge



1 Ahmed Muhammad Aasran
2 Mohammed Yousef Abbas
3 Jamal Abdelgani
4 Mohammed Hassan Abdou
5 Emad Abdou
6 Amad Elden Abdou
7 Abdalhele A. Abwalannen
8 Dawud Adib
9 Hosni Ahmed
10 Mohssen Ahmed
11 Nasser Al Din Alamani
12 Majdi Alghamrawi
13 Hekmat Alhadashek
14 Abd Al Hafez Mustafa Ali
15 Atif Ahmed Ali
16 Hamdi Ali
17 Samy Ali
18 Sharif Ali
19 Mike Alkam
20 Bilal Alkasi
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
95 Osama Bin Ladin

[joepistole]

Where did you graduate, Mecca University? You're speaking of old-school economics, I am a speaking of modern-economics. What's taught in school isn't what happens in the real world, atleast not what happens in European and American economics. Which is basically nothing like it's intended to be.

Yea sure Cheski, I got news for you everything in the world does not resolve around a bunch of religious fanatics wither they call themselves Jews or Muslims. You have no clue about the real world. And you failed to refute even one of my points...you went right to name calling...real smooth.

You want a country, great have one. But why should I an American tax payer not only pay for my government but yours as well. Ten percent of your national Annual budget comes from the United States Treasury.

[joepistole]

All Counsel of Record Re: US v. Omar Ahmad Ali Abdel Rahman, et al. (S5) 93 Cr. 181 (MBM)

Ladies and Gentlemen:

Enclosed is a list of unindicted persons who may be alleged as co-conspirators. The list is not exhaustive and, as is always the case, the government's investigation is continuing........ If we discover missing names they will be added.

Very truly yours,


Mary Jo White, US Attorney


Signed by Andrew C. McCarthy, Assistant US Attorney
cc: Honorable Michael B. Mukasey, US District Judge



1 Ahmed Muhammad Aasran
2 Mohammed Yousef Abbas
3 Jamal Abdelgani
4 Mohammed Hassan Abdou
5 Emad Abdou
6 Amad Elden Abdou
7 Abdalhele A. Abwalannen
8 Dawud Adib
9 Hosni Ahmed
10 Mohssen Ahmed
11 Nasser Al Din Alamani
12 Majdi Alghamrawi
13 Hekmat Alhadashek
14 Abd Al Hafez Mustafa Ali
15 Atif Ahmed Ali
16 Hamdi Ali
17 Samy Ali
18 Sharif Ali
19 Mike Alkam
20 Bilal Alkasi
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
95 Osama Bin Ladin

Buffalo, you have thrown up a lot of chaff but no substance. In order for you to perfect your argument you need to show proof that Clinton had sufficient evidence to indict Bin Ladin betwee 2003 and 2006 and you have not done that. If a document was unsealed, I would expect it to be in and around the time that it was created. So that puts the document beyond the period in question. As for warrants by the other nations you referenced, I seriously doubt it. They are nations that embraced terrorism, why would they want to imprison a fellow Islamist terrorist? In any case you have shown no proof of anything...just a bunch of accusations and chaff.

[Asguard]

Buffalo Roam go and reread the forum rules again. Posting a whole lot of quotes with no substance is against our policy

[Asguard]

no, all you did (for the second time now) is quote something you had previously posted

If you wish to add to it thats fine, link to the post, post the KEY POINTS ONLY and add to it but DONT post the whole thing and leave it at that.

If they didnt want to read it the first time what makes you think they will when its on a grey background rather than a white one?

[CheskiChips]

Yea sure Cheski, I got news for you everything in the world does not resolve around a bunch of religious fanatics wither they call themselves Jews or Muslims. You have no clue about the real world. And you failed to refute even one of my points...you went right to name calling...real smooth.

You want a country, great have one. But why should I an American tax payer not only pay for my government but yours as well. Ten percent of your national Annual budget comes from the United States Treasury.

I'm aware of your view, I might post a new related thread later tonight on the topic of discussion addressing the issue here. I am not sure I will not refute your points, because I believe they are founded on false premise, I will lay a new premise which you can feel free to agree or disagree with.

I insult you saying you go to MeccaU because of your foolish view that 10% of the countries income comes from taxes..it's blaint hatred of Judaism... America currently gives Israel 2.4 billion dollars a year...Israels GDP (nominally) 154.3 billion. Let's do the math, yeah...that's less than 2% easily. Why don't you complain about the AID in Africa that has yielded no results? Or the AID to Egypt, a country that would rather have you dead than alive. Or Saudi Arabia? It's all moot, since Israel gives potentially the most aid to foreign nations per capita. You would never know that because you get all of your facts from the internet and most likely in google searches. Google searches ARE NOT REALITY. Type "Israel + Foreign Aid" and you won't find a single story about Israels astounding foreign AID even to their 'enemies'. You won't hear about how they sneak accross borders illegally and bring millions of dollars worth of food to impoverished nations. No you would never hear about that, because you get your information from the internet. The internet is not the real world.

So this begs the question Mr. joepistole, why don't YOU start living in the real world?

[Buffalo Roam]

no, all you did (for the second time now) is quote something you had previously posted

If you wish to add to it thats fine, link to the post, post the KEY POINTS ONLY and add to it but DONT post the whole thing and leave it at that.

If they didnt want to read it the first time what makes you think they will when its on a grey background rather than a white one?

Because that is the flow of the debate, called rebuttal, and representation of Fact.

[Asguard]

a debate involves advancing an argument

one with goes round and round in cycles is not worth the server space

[S.A.M.]

Yea sure Cheski, I got news for you everything in the world does not resolve around a bunch of religious fanatics wither they call themselves Jews or Muslims. You have no clue about the real world. And you failed to refute even one of my points...you went right to name calling...real smooth.

You want a country, great have one. But why should I an American tax payer not only pay for my government but yours as well. Ten percent of your national Annual budget comes from the United States Treasury.

He's an American Jew.

[Buffalo Roam]

no, all you did (for the second time now) is quote something you had previously posted

If you wish to add to it thats fine, link to the post, post the KEY POINTS ONLY and add to it but DONT post the whole thing and leave it at that.

If they didnt want to read it the first time what makes you think they will when its on a grey background rather than a white one?

Look at the Indictment, I did only cover the Key Points, there are 49 pages to the Indictment.

[Asguard]

ok i will try to explain this to you in small easy to understand words

you posted a post listing whatever the fuck it was you wanted to talk about, then you come along latter and QUOTE THAT POST in full with no new arguments at all.

Now in a formal debate if you stood up and read the same speach twice word for word in the same debate this isnt called rebuttle its called A BORING WASTE OF TIME.

If you have any new points to make and you need to quote yourself to do it go ahead. QUOTE THE EXACT NESSARLY LINE and then argue for a few paragraphs about it but it specifically states in the rules that quoting a whole post with one line at the end like "i agree" adds nothing to the debate and will be deleted.

The same goes for reposting YOUR OWN posts.

go to where the number is in the top right hand corner of the posts, right click, copy link and post THAT and then argue your new points be them that the other poster missunderstood what you wrote or whatever it is you want to say.

[joepistole]

I'm aware of your view, I might post a new related thread later tonight on the topic of discussion addressing the issue here. I am not sure I will not refute your points, because I believe they are founded on false premise, I will lay a new premise which you can feel free to agree or disagree with.

I insult you saying you go to MeccaU because of your foolish view that 10% of the countries income comes from taxes..it's blaint hatred of Judaism... America currently gives Israel 2.4 billion dollars a year...Israels GDP (nominally) 154.3 billion. Let's do the math, yeah...that's less than 2% easily. Why don't you complain about the AID in Africa that has yielded no results? Or the AID to Egypt, a country that would rather have you dead than alive. Or Saudi Arabia? It's all moot, since Israel gives potentially the most aid to foreign nations per capita. You would never know that because you get all of your facts from the internet and most likely in google searches. Google searches ARE NOT REALITY. Type "Israel + Foreign Aid" and you won't find a single story about Israels astounding foreign AID even to their 'enemies'. You won't hear about how they sneak accross borders illegally and bring millions of dollars worth of food to impoverished nations. No you would never hear about that, because you get your information from the internet. The internet is not the real world.

So this begs the question Mr. joepistole, why don't YOU start living in the real world?

You are forgetting the loan guarentees. Additionally, why should the American tax payer be giving even a dime to a country that attacks and unarmed American Naval Vessel sailing in international waters and murder sailors and marines...USS Liberty. Why should I give money to a country who has been actively spying on us and stealing top secret material for decades? As for the other countries you mentioned, they have not attacked a US Navy vessel. They have not murdered unarmed sailors and marines nor have they spied on us.

No lets go back to the issue of debt being meaning less as was in your previous posts. You think my statement that one has to pay interest on the national debt and interest is a premise? All I can say, is what I said originally, get thy head out of thy rectum and into the nearest classroom.

By the way, you tried to insult me with your Mecca comment before I said anything about your national budget...just to set the record straight.

[Buffalo Roam]

Now in a formal debate if you stood up and read the same speach twice word for word in the same debate this isnt called rebuttle its called A BORING WASTE OF TIME.

Speech? No, Evidence Yes, and in Debate, it is permissable to reintroduce evedence in support of fact, you can go back to the evidence at any time, and point out the validity of that evidence.