Thread: What exactly is atheism?

  1. #381
    Refined Reinvention lixluke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enmos View Post
    The term "atheist" fits everyone that does not believe in any God, for whatever reason or from whatever angle.
    In my opinion the term "atheist" can be accurately described as "not a theist".
    It's nice that you feel that way. However, "Atheism", is commonly accepted for what its original intended use which is to describe only those who believe there is no God. This implies the belief in true and false. Those who believe there is no such thing as true and false cannot take up a true/false position. As such, they are not atheists.

    To label anybody that does not believe in God as "atheism" is just as silly as labeling anybody that does not believe there is no God as "theism".

    True/False is the basis for logical thought. Logical reasoning is used to come to conclusions of truth or fallacy.

    Subjectivism is the belief that there is no such thing as objective true/false.
    Skepticism is the belief that there is such thing as objective true/false, but man can never obtain knowledge of true/false.

  2. #382
    Valued Senior Member Simon Anders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q) View Post
    And, you've been given every opportunity to demonstrate claims of the supernatural. You haven't, neither has anyone else. How much more time would you like before we can shelf your beliefs alongside the other myths and superstitions mankind has created, and start tearing down religious influence in society? Mankind would surely like to move on beyond the Bronze Age, if you please.
    You are still using a strange 'we' and have added a strange 'mankind'. Obviously mankind is more diverse than you are making it out to be.

    But I made it clear, believe what you want Q.



    What, that's it?
    What? What do you want? I have no proselytizing interest at all.

    Of course, we're in very different positions. I can demonstrate nature, you cannot demonstrate gods. BIG difference. Yours is a position of faith in the invisible and undetectable, hence you can make up anything you want, and believe in it as a reality. Reality would abhor your position.
    I cannot demonstrate certain things to you. I can demonstrate it to others.

    I can also, like you, demonstrate what you are calling nature.

    'Reality would abhor my position'

    You sound like a monotheist, again. Seriously, you speak like a monothests sometimes.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Anders View Post
    Phlog sees a trend where theists are assuming that atheists are all antitheists. Having an inclusive category will add to the confusion there.

    Having medicine woman, for example, calling herself an atheist and saying there are no gods will add to theists beliefs that atheists believe there are no gods.

    I also think the lack of confrontation between these two types of believers adds to the confusion.

    Further I think some people believe there are no gods and talk in this way to theists, but when it comes down to being careful about self-description they define themselves as simply lacking a belief.

    I think this also adds to tensions.

    I think there are language and behavioral patterns that add to the conflict. there is already a conflict and cleaning up the language and behavior will not end it. But still....
    Well, all the confusion is brought on by the theists themselves. It's pretty much their problem, why should atheists be bothering themselves with it ?
    Also, see post 348:
    Quote Originally Posted by Enmos
    Simon, I think it's a bit more complicated than that.

    I think most atheists (at least the ones with a brain) do not believe in any god because there simply is no evidence for it and no implication whatsoever for any gods existence. The whole idea of a god goes against nature itself, it is not only not necessary but it even contradicts nature.
    These atheist are of the opinion (because of the reasons above) that the existence of a god is so unbelievably improbable that you can just as well say he doesn't exist. But at the same time they have to admit that they can't know that with a 100% certainty (albeit by a negligible margin). A lot of theists don't seem to get this and that is why atheists are wary about saying things like "god doesn't exist". Because then the theists come up with crap arguments like "atheism is just another religion".

    Then there are those that have been indoctrinated for whatever reason. Those are the ones that believe that there is not god, but not for any rational reason.
    These atheists "know" there is no god in the same way that theists "know" there IS a god.

    Both are atheists in my book, but from a completely different angle.

  4. #384
    Valued Senior Member Simon Anders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q) View Post
    Yes, I am skeptical of atheists claims, but so far, they are the ones who are right demonstrating the non-existence of gods as opposed to theists unable to demonstrate anything.
    If you could send me a link to the next demonstration, I'd be grateful.

    Q, why can't you admit that you believe there are no gods and there is no God?

  5. #385
    Refined Reinvention lixluke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q) View Post
    I would suspect 'anti-theism' to be active opposition to theism, perhaps in the line of lobbying for religions to pay taxes, for example. Or, the lobbying against childhood abuse in the form of religious indoctrination. I for one would be quite happy to participate in those activities.
    Activist opposition is exactly what anti-theism is. Anti-theism does not describe those who have the antithetic position to theism. It describes those who disfavor theism anywhere in society. Nobody should be allowed to worship or believe in any God is an example of anti-theism.

  6. #386
    Valued Senior Member Simon Anders's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enmos View Post
    Well, all the confusion is brought on by the theists themselves. It's pretty much their problem, why should atheists be bothering themselves with it ?
    Also, see post 348:
    You think so?
    Read my post above.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by lixluke View Post
    It's nice that you feel that way. However, "Atheism", is commonly accepted for what its original intended use which is to describe only those who believe there is no God. This implies the belief in true and false. Those who believe there is no such thing as true and false cannot take up a true/false position. As such, they are not atheists.

    To label anybody that does not believe in God as "atheism" is just as silly as labeling anybody that does not believe there is no God as "theism".

    True/False is the basis for logical thought. Logical reasoning is used to come to conclusions of truth or fallacy.

    Subjectivism is the belief that there is no such thing as objective true/false.
    Skepticism is the belief that there is such thing as objective true/false, but man can never obtain knowledge of true/false.
    Lixluke, that's a bit 'out there' don't you think ?

    Atheism comes from the early Ancient Greek atheos (privative a- + theos "god"), meaning "without gods" or "lack of belief in gods".

  8. #388
    Encephaloid Martini (Q)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Anders View Post
    You are still using a strange 'we' and have added a strange 'mankind'. Obviously mankind is more diverse than you are making it out to be.
    Goodness, gracious, me! I had no idea that the bigotry, hatred, racism, oppression and ignorance of religion added to the "diversity" of mankind? How quaint.

    I cannot demonstrate certain things to you. I can demonstrate it to others.
    Exactly. Rather pointless then, your religious beliefs, that is. Of course, I'm not opposed to you sitting behind closed doors, bathing in your beliefs, but I do have a problem with you making the claim that your religious beliefs have anything to do with reality.

    'Reality would abhor my position'

    You sound like a monotheist, again. Seriously, you speak like a monothests sometimes.
    Uh, yeah right. Is that the best you could do?

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Anders View Post
    You think so?
    Read my post above.
    Why does it matter so much to theists ? They tie themselves up in knots over defining atheists. Atheists are not an organized group, all that they have in common is that they do not believe in any god.

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by lixluke View Post
    Activist opposition is exactly what anti-theism is. Anti-theism does not describe those who have the antithetic position to theism. It describes those who disfavor theism anywhere in society. Nobody should be allowed to worship or believe in any God is an example of anti-theism.
    "I'm not even an atheist so much as I am an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches, and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful." ~ Christopher Hitchens.

  11. #391
    Encephaloid Martini (Q)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Anders View Post

    Q, why can't you admit that you believe there are no gods and there is no God?
    The problem is in theists definition of gods, which again boils down to their claims. You start from a position of gods existence and go on from there, hence it isn't possible for me to comment from that position.

    First, you make your claims as to what god is and how he exists, then we can determine your claims from that position.

  12. #392
    Refined Reinvention lixluke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enmos View Post
    Atheists make no such claim, not all at least.
    Quote Originally Posted by Enmos View Post
    Lixluke, that's a bit 'out there' don't you think ?

    Atheism comes from the early Ancient Greek atheos (privative a- + theos "god"), meaning "without gods" or "lack of belief in gods".
    We've already proven that etymology for atheism not only incorrect on so many levels, but complete propaganda.

    Athe-ism is the belief that there is no God.
    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=87276

  13. #393
    Quote Originally Posted by lixluke View Post
    We've already proven that etymology for atheism not only incorrect on so many levels, but complete propaganda.

    Athe-ism is the belief that there is no God.
    http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=87276
    I really doubt that. But fine, just to amuse you.. what am I then ?

  14. #394
    Refined Reinvention lixluke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by (Q) View Post
    "I'm not even an atheist so much as I am an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches, and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful." ~ Christopher Hitchens.
    That is a good demonstration of anti-theism. He does not as much abide by atheism as he does his disfavor of religion/teism. Anti-theism is with anti-religion.

  15. #395
    And what are you Lix ?

  16. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enmos View Post
    I really doubt that. But fine, just to amuse you.. what am I then ?
    Athe-ism is simply the position that there is no God. If you do not know or uncertain, you are definitely do not fall under atheism.

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by lixluke View Post
    Athe-ism is simply the position that there is no God. If you do not know or uncertain, you are definitely do not fall under atheism.
    See post 348

  18. #398
    Refined Reinvention lixluke's Avatar
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    Subjectivism - There is no such thing as true/false.
    Skepticism - There is such thing as true/false. Man cannot obtain actual knowledge of true/false.
    Gnosticism - There is such thing as true/false. Man can obtain actual knowledge of God.
    Agnosticism - There is such as true/false. Man can obtain actual knowledge of true/false. Man cannot obtain actual knowledge of God.
    Theism - There is such thing as true/false. God does exist.
    Atheism - There is such thing as true/false. God does not exist.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by lixluke View Post
    Subjectivism - There is no such thing as true/false.
    Skepticism - There is such thing as true/false. Man cannot obtain knowledge of true/false.
    Gnosticism - There is such thing as true/false. Man can obtain actual knowledge of God.
    Agnosticism - There is such as true/false. Man can obtain actual knowledge of true/false. Man cannot obtain actual knowledge of God.
    Theism - There is such thing as true/false. God does exist.
    Atheism - There is such thing as true/false. God does not exist.

  20. #400
    Lix:

    Quote Originally Posted by Enmos View Post
    ..what am I then ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Enmos View Post
    And what are you Lix ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Enmos View Post
    See post 348

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