House GOP Revolt

Discussion in 'Politics' started by madanthonywayne, Aug 3, 2008.

  1. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    When the House Democratic leadership closed for their August debate without taking action on increasing domestic oil production to ease recent price spikes in oil, the Republican minority refused to leave. Here's what happened:
    So, in the end, this didn't really amount to much. But it's great to see the Republican minority showing some spine. This kind of thing could be devastating if they stick to it and get some coverage come November.
     
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  3. Roman Banned Banned

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    Isn't there a government study that shows that development of domestic oil won't do shit?
    Yes, there is.

    Furthermore, the price of crude oil is only loosely tied to the price at the pump. If prices go up to $4 a gallon, and you're still filling up your SUV, why the heck would a rational company lower prices if you're still willing to pay full price? Gas is an inelastic good.

    I heard on NPR that a bi-partisan committee decided to RAISE taxes on oil to fund alternative energy. This, they decided, would lower energy prices. Can't remember if these ten genuises were in the House or Senate.


    If government was really serious about lowering energy prices, they'd make it illegal to tax energy. I'm getting $2,000 from the state of Alaska this year, from taxing oil companies. In fact, every resident is. Alaska has billions of dollars of surplus revenue. Guess why? Because we're taxing the shit out of oil. And guess who ultimately pays for that? You and everyone else.
     
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  5. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    Oh, a government study. How silly of me to not base my opinions on government studies. After all, the government is so efficient and wise!
    This recent drop in prices we're enjoying started during Bush's speech in which he urged congress to allow increased drilling.
    Well, they probably based that plan on one of those government studies you're so fond of! Isn't that pretty much Obama's entire plan? Institute a "windfall profits" tax and maybe throw some of the money into research?
    Here, we're in complete agreement. But, again, the democrat's whole plan is to tax and punish the oil companies. Oh, yes, and throw some money into research. Increasing taxes and punishing the people who produce something are not the way to lower the price of an item. Increasing production is. Decreasing demand is another. We need to do both.
     
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  7. Roman Banned Banned

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    It's from your Bush administration, though. That's what I find most surprising. It's not that it's agovernment study, it's a Bush government study.

    I haven't seen any drop in prices at the pump. Maybe a 4 cent drop? It's still $4.49/gallon here. A ten dollar drop in a barrel of crude, sure. But everyone knows oil is incredibly volatile.

    Probably. It's not a very bright idea.

    I didn't know Obama had a plan.

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

    I heard something about everyone getting a unicorn....

    We need to not do anything, and let the market do its thing. Roll back restrictions.

    Though, as long as we're not operating in a totally free market (you can't buy the Yukon River. Yet.), I hesitate to lift drilling restrictions in ecologically sensitive places. Oil isn't going to last a whole lot longer. Why destroy everything in the meantime? Unless you can suggest a good substitute to marine fisheries, though I don't think we're anywhere near that level of technology.

    I guess what I'm saying is- until we get the balls to privatize everything, we need a mechanism to deal with negative externalities. And the only method to do that, for now, is the government.
     
  8. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    Mad, the speaker needs to censor the republicans for this kind of behavor. If they wish to protest great, do it in the streets, dont turn the legislative branch into a kindergaton. This is no better than the way the liberals acted in the federal parliment when they brought a cardboard cutout of the PM into the house because there wasnt going to be a question time on fridays.
     
  9. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    I've got the balls right now. Privatize everything. We've got a debt to pay off, everything must go!
     
  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    Way to go, Republicans, taking a stand to help those poor oil companies! You have to wonder if they even know there are interests out there besides corporate ones.
     
  11. superstring01 Moderator

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    Of course Asguard. What "behavior"? You mean, the desire to stay and fix a serious problem?

    But if the tables were turned and it were the Democrats who stayed, you'd be championing their fortitude.

    Oh-- the rules in the House don't allow for the Speaker to "censor" (you mean censure?) the Republicans for staying. It's their "house" too.

    What Bush should have done is canceled their recess and forced them all back into cession in order to start dealing with the energy issues like -- GASP!! -- leaders, instead of taking the first flight home for a month long vacation. You know, leaders DO sometimes have to stay and work in order to get the job done.

    ~String
     
  12. Repo Man Valued Senior Member

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    Back to the utopia that was the nineteenth century, yay!
     
  13. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    I know they are getting serious when they pass a law forbiding the export of US produced oil to China, Japan and Korea. That is over a million barrels per day. When they do that, then I know they are serious about domestic oil production.

    Producing more domestic oil does nothing if they just ship it overseas. This whole arguement is stupid, not relevant, unless domestic production does not get exported.
     
  14. madanthonywayne Morning in America Registered Senior Member

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    You haven't seen a drop in prices? It's gone from about $4.19/gallon to $3.70 here in Indiana.
     
  15. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Prices have gone down, but it is (according to the experts) due to demand destruction and building inventories. Basically, the demand for oil has decreased. That is what it is supposed to do. If markets are free, supply and demand will eventually find an equilibrium price.
     
  16. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    It all goes on the market, wether it comes from Saudi Arabia or off the coast of Florida. We might as well encourage more drilling in Russia for all the good it will do, at least they will suffer the environmental impacts instead of us. Unless we nationalize our oil companies, more drilling only puts more money into the pockets of Exxon, which means it goes to a tax shelter in the Cayman Islands.
     
  17. countezero Registered Senior Member

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    Your solution to the Oil crisis is to nationalize them? That's fucking idiotic, Spider.

    How does that change a thing?

    The issue, as you suggest, is the lack of supply, not who's delivering it and how.

    And your jab about profits is typical and uninformed. Try digging beyond that easy headline to see what the oil market is really made up of.

    And gas has gone down in recent weeks, something like 30 cents per gallon. I think it's a combo of less driving and the summer winding down, but the market may have reached critical mass in July.

    Either way, to really fix the energy issue, a holistic approach that includes increased domestic drilling, but also things such as nuclear power, which the Left don't want, needs to be formulated by our so-called leaders in Washington. The fact no one is seriously working on anything tells you all you need to know about Congress.

    The American people and the economy are suffering from this and nobody is seriously doing anything about it. In a word: Pathetic.
     
  18. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    actually no string i wouldnt be. I dont know how congress works but i find the behavor of the current oposition in australia in that friday sesion deplorable. If it had been labor who had done it i would be even more angry because i suport labor, the speaker of the house controles the house and the president of the senate controls the senate. If the oposition wishes to atack the "goverment" (ie the PM and his minsters) go ahead, it would be great to see a stronger oposition. However the way they behaved more reminded me of a classroom full of monkeys hanging from the celling and throwing paper at the teacher. This is not the way our representives should behave and this includes disrespecting the speaker of the house (or the president if its the senate)

    Now on to this case. I dont see any difference in the way your congress behaved. If there was legislation that needed passing they should have voted against the ajurment motion. If they didnt win to bad, they could have gone on every media, they could have protested out side congress or the speakers office but to turn the chamber into a farse like that is deplorable and only hurts there own causes
     
  19. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    Need to get the energy markets to act more like competive markets and not monopolies. That is the solution.
     
  20. Roman Banned Banned

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    They do, though.
    It's just your unwillingness to ride a fucking bike that makes them seem so powerful.

    You guys are addicted to oil.
     
  21. iceaura Valued Senior Member

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    1) Domestic drilling in the currently sequestered areas won't do any more than domestic drilling in the 50+% of the already leased and permitted areas not yet drilled, namely next to nothing (at max production, a 4% drop in pump prices, starting in ten years).

    2) The current Republicans have been behaving in exactly this fashion for many years now - voting as a bloc, tying up anything they don't like with scorched earth legislative manuevers, etc. It's the Dems that have always "lacked spine", although a more accurate description might be "have been coopted". In the nineties the Reps shut down the federal government for a while, over another essentially trivial bit of symbolism.

    3) As long as the shithead vote can be got cheap like this, and the new wave Dems don't have control of Congress, we'll see more stupid behavior by ostensible adults, grandstanding and posturing on the wreckage of honest government.
     
  22. Asguard Kiss my dark side Valued Senior Member

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    oh string, i find it interesting that you think im more interested in one party or the other, over the parlimentry prossess. I have great respect for the parlimentry prossess and i wish the libs would stop self destructing so they could become a more effective oposition. Of course i want to see them remain in oposition because i belive labor better represents the issues i find important (well actually i think the democrats do but they arnt in parliment any more and they could never win goverment anyway) but in order for parliment to work effectivly the oposition needs to be strong. Look at what happened when the howard goverment won control of the senate, legislation they would never have concidered moving was not only moved but passed without debate. There winning the senate lead directly to there loss of goverment. Now although i dont lement the loss of Howard in parliment and especially in goverment i do know enough to understand how important a strong parliment is and that means you need a strong opostition. This is what angered me so much about the way the oposition behaved in the first (and unfortunatly only) friday session

    I actually thought it was a good idea to have a specific day to deal with backbencher and oposition buiness rather than focusing compleatly on the goverments agender. There have been some really good legislation moved as private members bills and this was a chance to focus souly on that without the loss of time for goverment buiness. The parliment never sat on a friday anyway so the goverment wasnt cutting down question times, it was only keeping them the same and adding time for other things.
     
  23. joepistole Deacon Blues Valued Senior Member

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    You got me, I shoot oil every few hours. What we need is alternatives. And those alternatives are know. Have been know for sometime. But our leaders have served the interests of the rich and powerful and not the interests of the people. Back in the 80's the American government formed the Alternative Fuels Corporation to being alternative fuels to the market. Four years after its creation, Congress killed it. Why, big oil didn't like the competition.
     

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