Discussion: That sex without consent is always rape

**Asguard** · 07-13-08, 07:03 AM

whats especially stupid was the fact that not only did this guy force his wife to rape this man but if he wanted to get her pregnant so badly there are sperm banks all over the place they could have used paid for by medicare for christ sake.

Now not only did this guy help RAPE a random guy but it was he stod there and held a knife to the guys throat while his WIFE raped him. I couldnt even imagin letting another guy sleep with PB let alone force someone else to at knife point. Its INSANE

**visceral_instinct** · 07-13-08, 07:08 AM

it was fucking sick, was what it was.

**angrybellsprout** · 07-13-08, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by visceral_instinct

I was talking about my post, I argued something, and instead of replying you just called me a stupid shit.

Still being proud of the fact that you aren't able to figure out what a strawman is...

**MetaKron** · 07-13-08, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by CutsieMarie89

From my human sexuality class I learned the term rape encompasses a wide variety of situations and actions. According to these rules a study found that among college aged women who were sexually active nearly 86% fell into a category that legally says they were raped. We did the poll in my class too and the results were about the same. But you can't go off of the legal jargon of the word because that would mean almost all men are rapists and should be in prison. It more personal I think. If you don't feel like you were raped, then you weren't. You shouldn't have to wait for someone to tell you that you were. If you did not like the situation ans felt like you were in fact forced then it is rape, as far as you should be concerned anyway. At least those are my rules and regulations for myself...

If she has to be told that she was raped, well what kind of young adults are being raised on this planet? What kind of people take advantage of the alleged victim like that?

**angrybellsprout** · 07-13-08, 01:52 PM

Alleged victim? I wish that our legal system would allow that term to be used.

**visceral_instinct** · 07-13-08, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by angrybellsprout

Still being proud of the fact that you aren't able to figure out what a strawman is...

I know what the term means, thank you very much.

And you are still hiding behind insults like that and refusing to use reason.

**MetaKron** · 07-13-08, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by angrybellsprout

Alleged victim? I wish that our legal system would allow that term to be used.

If no one is being victimized they have to manufacture a victim and victimization.

**angrybellsprout** · 07-13-08, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by visceral_instinct

I know what the term means, thank you very much.

And you are still hiding behind insults like that and refusing to use reason.

You obviously don't show the fact that you have any clue as to what strawmen are at all.

**visceral_instinct** · 07-13-08, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by angrybellsprout

You obviously don't show the fact that you have any clue as to what strawmen are at all.

*digs nails into underside of knuckles*

A "strawman" argument is when you misrepresent someone, attributing to them an argument that is exaggerated or otherwise more easily refuted than the one they actually made.

There, happy now? Any chance of you getting back to discussion instead of calling people trash and shit every time they actually make a point?

**Randwolf** · 07-13-08, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by visceral_instinct

*digs nails into underside of knuckles*

A "strawman" argument is when you misrepresent someone, attributing to them an argument that is exaggerated or otherwise more easily refuted than the one they actually made.

There, happy now? Any chance of you getting back to discussion instead of calling people trash and shit every time they actually make a point?

VI, don't let yourself have apoplexia.. What are you trying to accomplish? You are very good at making a point, relax, don't let people sidetrack you...

**angrybellsprout** · 07-13-08, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by visceral_instinct

*digs nails into underside of knuckles*

A "strawman" argument is when you misrepresent someone, attributing to them an argument that is exaggerated or otherwise more easily refuted than the one they actually made.

There, happy now? Any chance of you getting back to discussion instead of calling people trash and shit every time they actually make a point?

You mean instead of simply throwing up more distractions like you had been doing by defending James strawmen?

Strawmen are dishonest distractions which warrant no response except a demand for such dishonestly to be taken back.

**angrybellsprout** · 07-13-08, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Randwolf

VI, don't let yourself have apoplexia.. What are you trying to accomplish? You are very good at making a point, relax, don't let people sidetrack you...

She didn't make any points, only attempted to defend the distractions being flung around by James.

**James R** · 07-13-08, 10:18 PM

Syzygys:

Originally Posted by Syzygys

I already did a summary at the end of my last post. Somebody just PMed me with the following info, so I will share it here:

"In UK law, a person does not commit rape if they had 'reasonable belief' that the other person gave consent. In other words, it's not down to whether the person actually consented or not, it's down to whether the accused believed they had consented.

The belief must, however, be reasonable.

The moral is that crimes are punished because the wrong doing was deliberate. One doesn't get punished for accidents.

Yes.

**James R** · 07-13-08, 10:23 PM

lepustimidus:

Originally Posted by lepustimidus

James, it is incredibly dishonest to associate a bullshit opinion with angrybellsprout in an attempt to belittle him, and then call him a coward when he refuses to support an assertion which he didn't make in the first place.

I have now asked angrybellsprout 6 times a simple yes-no question, which was this:

"Do you agree that sex without consent is always rape?"

Perhaps you missed those 6 times. So far, he has been unable or unwilling to answer the question.

Now, what are we to conclude from his unwillingness to answer? I outlined several possibilities earlier:

1. He thinks it makes him look like a big man if he can hold out against a reasonable question. i.e. he refuses to answer because he is petulant and it is me asking him.
2. He thinks that sex without consent is rape but is worried about making himself look stupid after a consistent week of whining.
3. He thinks that sex without consent is not rape, but realises that this is a shameful view to hold and therefore is too scared to admit to it.

Why don't you find out for us why is holding out. Maybe he'll talk to his little friend. You can comfort him.

**~~lepustimidus~~** · 07-13-08, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by James R

lepustimidus:
I have now asked angrybellsprout 6 times a simple yes-no question, which was this:

"Do you agree that sex without consent is always rape?"

Perhaps you missed those 6 times. So far, he has been unable or unwilling to answer the question.

Now, what are we to conclude from his unwillingness to answer? I outlined several possibilities earlier:

1. He thinks it makes him look like a big man if he can hold out against a reasonable question. i.e. he refuses to answer because he is petulant and it is me asking him.
2. He thinks that sex without consent is rape but is worried about making himself look stupid after a consistent week of whining.
3. He thinks that sex without consent is not rape, but realises that this is a shameful view to hold and therefore is too scared to admit to it.

Why don't you find out for us why is holding out. Maybe he'll talk to his little friend. You can comfort him.

It's amazing how no-one here calls you on your dishonesty, James. I guess being a moderator has it's perks, hey?

Angrybellsprout doesn't need to play by your bullshit rules, especially after you misrepresented his point of view, and then labelled him a coward for not arguing in favour of the strawman you erected.

**~~lepustimidus~~** · 07-13-08, 11:40 PM

James R:

2. He thinks that sex without consent is rape but is worried about making himself look stupid after a consistent week of whining.

He's always thought that, you stuttering imbecile. Anyone who can read knows this.

Here's a suggestion. Re-read that stupid rape list, and just think about how many options claim that an act of sex is rape, despite explicit and/or implicit consent being given. Start with the ones regarding alcohol.

**James R** · 07-13-08, 11:44 PM

lepustimidus:

Originally Posted by lepustimidus

It's amazing how no-one here calls you on your dishonesty,

I apply the same standard to you as I do to your friend.

If you wish to accuse me of dishonesty, please cite and link to the relevant posts in which that dishonesty is evident. Otherwise, I ask you not to make unfounded accusations. Thankyou.

Angrybellsprout doesn't need to play by your bullshit rules...

He did not need to participate in this thread at all. But for about a week now he has repeatedly and mysteriously felt the need to whinge and whine about how I have set up some "straw man" version of his opinions, yet strangely without ever feeling any need to correct the record and express his real opinions in a clear and concise manner. In fact, when asked for his actual opinions directly, he declines to answer, as pointed out above.

Once again, I open the floor for him to say what he really thinks - if he has the guts, that is.

**James R** · 07-13-08, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by lepustimidus

He's always thought that, you stuttering imbecile. Anyone who can read knows this.

Can't he talk for himself? Why does he need you as his spokesman?

Here's a suggestion. Re-read that stupid rape list, and just think about how many options claim that an act of sex is rape, despite explicit and/or implicit consent being given. Start with the ones regarding alcohol.

Hmmm.... so it is a "stupid" rape list, is it?

What's your opinion? Do you think that sex without consent is rape, or not?

**angrybellsprout** · 07-13-08, 11:54 PM

Again with the dishonesty James.

My position has been clearly stated time and time again. The fact that you refuse to read and of the many times that I stated it, but would rather push your strawman just further points towards your dishonesty.

**James R** · 07-14-08, 12:08 AM

angrybellsprout:

You know what? I give up. I'm not going to ask you again what your position is. It is very easy for you to complain "I have expressed a position! Really I have! I promise!", and yet never refer to it, never link to it, never repeat it. The simple fact is that I have asked you to express your position 7 times now. That record speaks for itself.

I have had enough of you. The best thing about beating your heat against a brick wall is stopping, so I'm stopping.

The fact is: you're not important, anyway. Who gives a damn what you think? You've already forfeited any semblance of respectability in this debate.