Hydrogen storage breakthrough - a stable white powder with a higher yield than liquid

Discussion in 'General Science & Technology' started by cosmictraveler, Jun 25, 2008.

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  1. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Finally - a one-pot, efficient means of producing ammonium borane;

    Gizmag article....http://www.gizmag.com/hydrogen-storage-breakthrough/9517/

    Pacific Northwest National Labs paper.....http://www.rsc.org/delivery/_Articl...008&ManuscriptID=b808865a&Iss=Advance_Article

    Gizmag;


    Quote:
    Hydrogen storage breakthrough - a stable white powder with a higher yield than liquid nitrogen.

    June 24, 2008 Hydrogen offers many benefits as a renewable and sustainable fuel of the future as its combustion emits only water. The main problem to now is that it must be stored as a gas, which is potentially dangerous for everyday use, and it can only be stored as a liquid under cryogenic conditions. Now there may be another alternative. Chemists in the US have developed a simple reaction to make ammonia borane (AB) – a powder more hydrogen-dense than even liquid hydrogen. AB is a stable white powder which releases hydrogen gas upon heating. Its use as a hydrogen storage material has been hampered by difficulties in making the powder in reasonable yield, but the new research further increases its promise.

    Chemist Tom Autrey and colleagues from Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, US, discovered the “one-pot” method of making AB while studying its decomposition pathways. The group was pleasantly surprised that “under relatively simple reaction conditions the ammonia borane was formed in very high yields.”

    The group is researching new designer materials to store hydrogen safely, so that it can be released at will to power a fuel cell. The group is currently looking at scaling up the reaction to an industrial level.

    Autrey says the next challenge is to “recycle the solvents to provide the most economical route to synthesise this promising hydrogen storage material.”

    Their one-pot synthesis of this promising hydrogen storage material is reported in the first issue of the new Royal Society of Chemistry journal Energy & Environmental Science.
     
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  3. Diode-Man Awesome User Title Registered Senior Member

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    Ah-ha! I like this. One day I hope to own a hydrogen vehicle.
     
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  5. Echo3Romeo One man wolfpack Registered Senior Member

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    Very interesting. Can someone who knows more than me write out the chemical equation for the liberation of hydrogen?
     
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  7. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    That's all well and good, but UNTIL we have a sufficient number of nuclear power plants to meet our electrical power needs AND to produce they hydrogen, using hydrogen - in whatever form - as a energy storage medium is the result of brain-dead thinking.

    The energy conversion losses alone are enough to prove it's an unintelligent choice!
     
  8. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    Not much of a formula, really. The first stage is polymerization:

    H3NBH3 + heat > (NH2BH2)n + heat > H(n) + (NHBH)n
     
  9. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    In total it's actually very energy inefficient storage. I would prefer zinc or metal-air fuel cells instead.
     
  10. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    It's not only the stroage that's ineficient - there's also reprocessing, distribution/pick-up and several other negative factors.

    Do you really think your idea is any more efficent??? What costs in terms of money and energy does it take to produce the zinc or other metal? A little rethinking might be involved because it's not only the price or raw production but many other factors as well.
     
  11. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Actually yes, there no pressurizations or liquefaction energy cost as zinc paste is neither a gas nor cryogenic liquid. Zinc-air fuel cell is slight more efficient then hydrogen both in charging and regeneration, also a zinc-air flow cell could in theory recharge like a battery thus infrastructure of "gas" stations is optional or can be implemented at leisure. Zinc is a very cheap metal, though aluminum would provided greater energy density and higher discharge efficiency its far more expensive to mine.
     
  12. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    I believe you need to do some pretty serious research on that. For example, how many charge/discharge cycles can it go through before the cell needs replacing? And just HOW expensive is the cell in the first place - raw material cost is FAR from the whole story.

    And since you mentioned aluminum, you might be interested to know that it's very, very cheap to mine. It's the production/processing that's so expensive - it takes a TREMENDOUS amount of electrical power to produce one pound of the metal.

    The main point I'm trying to make with you is that you actually seem to know very little about what you're promoting. And that's why I say you need to do a lot more research.

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  13. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    I my self don't need to, rather experimenters on such a fuel cell do. Sorry for the inaccuracy I meant refine aluminum.

    The construction price for a metal air-fuel cell is much lower then a hydrogen fuel cell, such cell lack expensive rare metal catalysis or the need for proton exchanging membranes. For example most hearing aids are power by zinc-air batteries.

    Your point though is not taken I think I know a lot more then you give me credit for and I don't take kindly to ad hominems like that amount to "you don't know what your talking about", even if I was a complete ignoramus if I said 2+2=4 I would still be right. Rather I think you should look up the subject of metal air batteries/fuel cells.
     
  14. OilIsMastery Banned Banned

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    The only alternative to oil is human stupidity.
     
  15. Read-Only Valued Senior Member

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    That was NO personal attack of any kind and I most certainly do NOT like your attempt to put words in my mouth. I said what I meant quite clearly and intended only exactly what I said.

    And if you do know a lot more "than I give you credit for" then please provide us with some solid numbers that show the advantage of what you are advocating. I'd really like to see them (and believe that others would also) if you can provide them.
     
  16. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    than all we need to do is hook you up to the grid and we be set.
     
  17. Echo3Romeo One man wolfpack Registered Senior Member

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  18. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Last edited: Jun 26, 2008
  19. Diode-Man Awesome User Title Registered Senior Member

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    Would it be more efficient to split water if perhaps it was put under a higher PSI for the electricity to flow through it?

    Perhaps a high voltage DC current?

    I've heard that once the resonant frequency of the water be reached, the efficiency of the splitting into hydrogen and oxygen is greatly enhanced.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2008
  20. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    There a many working out how to do electrolysis more efficiently, but it theoretical limit is still below lithium ion and other battery chemistries, unless you consider thermal cracking but that requires high temperature powerplants.
     
  21. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    You could use a microwave to produce the electrolysis in the water.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhr9463yhtQ
     
  22. draqon Banned Banned

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    by the way...if that voltage is high enough plasmoid may form above water.
     
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