Age of Conan

[Michael]

When is the Age of Conan? Is it during the Roman fall or Roman expansion? When exactly? And, where?

Just curious,
Michael

[Zephyr]

Isn't Conan a fictional character?

[Mr.Spock]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZY2m...eature=related

[invert_nexus]

Hyborian Age.
Before the time when the oceans drank Atlantis.
Wiki says 10,000 to 14,000 years ago.
Catalhoyuk was post Conan by a few centuries. Gobleki Tepe and Jericho would have been right in there. Might have been where Toth Amon lived.

[Dr Lou Natic]

Is there a real time in history which most closely resembles this fictional age? Did buffed white dudes ever wander around with bear pelts and furry underpants wielding huge axes and swords.

There's also slaine, my geek uncle used to have these comics in his room at my grandmothers house.

[Michael]

Wow I didn't realize it was such a long time ago.

Cool

I suppose I got to thinking about it when the video preview of the game popped up on Gamespot. I wonder if they will make a new Conan movie?

[Fraggle Rocker]

Before the time when the oceans drank Atlantis. Wiki says 10,000 to 14,000 years ago.

It's very likely, but not certain, that the Atlantis legend is about Thera, a Mediterranean island whose destruction by a volcano and tidal wave ended Minoan civilization. This happened only 3,500 years ago.

Is there a real time in history which most closely resembles this fictional age? Did buffed white dudes ever wander around with bear pelts and furry underpants wielding huge axes and swords.

The metal is the key to the mystery. The Bronze Age began no earlier than 4000BCE. Before that, even though the technology of civilization had been invented four or five thousand years previously, from an engineering perspective it was still the Stone Age. The only material that could be fashioned into a blade was flint, and flint and sharpened wood were the only materials for pointed weapons.

I haven't read the books but in the movies Conan is portrayed with a steel sword, and the Iron Age didn't start until 1200BCE.

People who had the technology of metallurgy could do a lot better for clothing than wrapping themselves in furs. The stories are too full of contradictions and incongruities to relate to reality. It's like the Klingons and Ferengi in Star Trek: Yeah right, we're supposed to believe cultures like that could have invented space travel?

I wonder if they will make a new Conan movie?

It's a shame they didn't do it when Arnold was still young enough to pull it off. When his term as governor is over he'll be way too old to play the role except as an elder reprise. He'd be a tough act to follow for recasting. There are people who insist that Sean Connery was James Bond. Well hell, Arnold STILL IS Conan!

[Michael]

Yeah, it's have to be set in the Conan Universe ... but only Arnnie can be Conan. If someone othe than an LA shrimp didn't write the script it could be really good with todays tech. I mean, maybe Conan doesn't HAVE to be in a "Conan" movie ???

[Dr Lou Natic]

People who had the technology of metallurgy could do a lot better for clothing than wrapping themselves in furs.

I dunno, today in papua new guinea you will see warriors with feather skirts carrying machine guns.
Conan was kind of a wandering nomad barbarian, making clothes out of what he could find/kill, doesn't mean there weren't fairly advanced civilisations somewhere else producing the swords (you got the impression they were more iron than bronze).

I can't remember everything from the movies (didn't they get a bit gay and "magic"? hate that), but it seems at least the bear-pelt wearing barbarian with an iron sword element could have existed during roman times.

[Roman]

It's a shame they didn't do it when Arnold was still young enough to pull it off. When his term as governor is over he'll be way too old to play the role except as an elder reprise. He'd be a tough act to follow for recasting. There are people who insist that Sean Connery was James Bond. Well hell, Arnold STILL IS Conan!

Conan did lead his people as a king in his later years.

[nietzschefan]

It's very likely, but not certain, that the Atlantis legend is about Thera, a Mediterranean island whose destruction by a volcano and tidal wave ended Minoan civilization. This happened only 3,500 years ago.The metal is the key to the mystery. The Bronze Age began no earlier than 4000BCE. Before that, even though the technology of civilization had been invented four or five thousand years previously, from an engineering perspective it was still the Stone Age. The only material that could be fashioned into a blade was flint, and flint and sharpened wood were the only materials for pointed weapons.

I haven't read the books but in the movies Conan is portrayed with a steel sword, and the Iron Age didn't start until 1200BCE.

People who had the technology of metallurgy could do a lot better for clothing than wrapping themselves in furs. The stories are too full of contradictions and incongruities to relate to reality. It's like the Klingons and Ferengi in Star Trek: Yeah right, we're supposed to believe cultures like that could have invented space travel?It's a shame they didn't do it when Arnold was still young enough to pull it off. When his term as governor is over he'll be way too old to play the role except as an elder reprise. He'd be a tough act to follow for recasting. There are people who insist that Sean Connery was James Bond. Well hell, Arnold STILL IS Conan!

R.E Howard was well read on most old legends of Atlantis, Thule, the "real" Hyperborans(Of Greek pre-history), etc. He took many real civilizations from the bronze and early iron age and transplanted them to his own made up pre-history set sometime after 15000BC(Altantis' fall), yet before 10000BC(Sons of Aryas - some kind of early egypt civ).

If Arnie didn't make governor he was totally lined up to play "King Conan" and the project was shelved when he got elected.

His sword in the Conan movies is actually supposed to be an advanced Atlantean sword, as revealed by Basil Poledouris "Atlantean Sword" theme that plays when he finds it in an ancient tomb in Conan the Barbarian. I read the sword(the actual "prop") is mounted in the California Governor's office above his desk. Conan has truly found his own kingdom...for 8 or so years I guess...

[Michael]

ahhhh so the Atlantean's had the tech - makes sense now.

It's interesting that Atlantis has been a myth for soooo long - maybe one of the longest ?

[blobrana]

Çatalhöyük: a Stone Age city

“In 1961 the British archaeologist James Mellaart began excavating a 20-meter-high hüyük (a mound built of man-made debris, otherwise known as a tel) in the Konya Plain, near the small town of Çumra. Although he failed to unearth either a cave girl's fur bikini or a stone TV, what he did discover over the next four years was every bit as exciting as fiction. Çatalhöyük turned out to be one of the most important sites not only in Turkey, but in the world.”

Read more

[Prince_James]

Fraggle Rocker:

People who had the technology of metallurgy could do a lot better for clothing than wrapping themselves in furs. The stories are too full of contradictions and incongruities to relate to reality. It's like the Klingons and Ferengi in Star Trek: Yeah right, we're supposed to believe cultures like that could have invented space travel?

War sees a dramatic expansion of engineering endeavour. Accordingly, it is reasonable to suspect that a warrior culture (the Klingons) would create technology quicker than a pacifist culture.

The Ferengi also are ardent profit seekers. As evidenced by the success of capitalism based on the profit motive, it is also reasonable to suggest they'd quickly progress their technology.

Moreover, it is notable that the Conan stories occur in an age struck by cataclysm after at its end. It is thus premised on a level of civilization that was lead to the realization of classical levels of stuff before being flung down back into the stonage. As such, the normal archaeological epochs do not function to categorize the time period.

It is also notable that Conan does not wear "furs" alone. And "furs" and other garments were worn by several iron age societies.

[Plazma Inferno!]

Age of Conan unfortunately isn't based on Conan books.

Hyboria, however, is a fictional world, based on real ancient worlds set in post-Atlantean setting, known as Hyborian age.
It's a fictional timeline that came after the Thurian Age (time of Atlantis).

Whoever remembers the Kull, another character created by Robert Howard, knows that he lived during the Thurian age.

Here's the map of Hyboria, so you can understand the setting:




And bigger and better (I didn't posted it directly, because it would break design):

http://www.conan.com/hyboria.jpg

The plot in Age of Conan is happening mostly between three lands: Cimmeria, Aquilonia and Stygia.
So, basically you choose your character between these three races.
Melee classes are reserved for Cimmerians and Aquilonians, while caster classes (Mages) belong to the dark and evil Stygians. Exceptions are Priest classes (mixture of casters and melee), where Bear Shaman belongs to the Cimmerians, Priest of Mitra to Aquilonians and Tempest of Set to Stygians.

Game entered an early access more than week ago, and so far I can tell it's excellent. It has new moments in Combat known as fatalities, where you can decapitate, impale or crush your enemy. There is a lot of other fatalities available for each class, and each fatality is accompanied with blood splatter on the screen.

I've seen only positive reviews from early access players, so I guess everyone should sharpen up PC and enter the Hyboria.


* Edit: this is actually History forum and I'm reviewing the game

[Fraggle Rocker]

I dunno, today in papua new guinea you will see warriors with feather skirts carrying machine guns. Conan was kind of a wandering nomad barbarian, making clothes out of what he could find/kill, doesn't mean there weren't fairly advanced civilisations somewhere else producing the swords (you got the impression they were more iron than bronze).

Of course, but the technology of iron metallurgy is only about 3,200 years old. This would propel the life of Conan into a much later age than the other posters have been speculating.

I can't remember everything from the movies (didn't they get a bit gay and "magic"? hate that)

I don't remember any homosexual references. Or maybe you meant to put the quotes around "gay" instead of magic. This genre of literature is known as "swords and sorcery" so magic is de rigueur.

But it seems at least the bear-pelt wearing barbarian with an iron sword element could have existed during roman times.

Well sure. That was the curse of the Iron Age. Bronze uses tin and copper ores, which are virtually never found in close proximity. Bronze metallurgy requires planning, cooperation and commerce over great distances--not to mention transportation of heavy loads in wheeled vehicles drawn by domesticated animals. In other words, bronze requires civilization.

But iron ore is common and requires no alloying with other elements to smelt and forge a metal much stronger than bronze. Once the people of a city figured out how to make iron (the key to it is just an incredibly hot fire), they no longer needed to maintain delicate relations with other cities in order to have metal tools, structures and weapons. Neigboring cities could make war on each other without cutting off their supply of the materials they needed to make their weapons. But even worse, much early technology--e.g. writing and agriculture--was little more than knowledge. The nearby Neolithic tribes could easily duplicate their work. Suddenly every "barbarian" tribe became a "kingdom" with metal weapons.

Although Stone Age tribes fought with each other, the spoils to be gained from fighting with flint axes and flint-tipped arrows and spears is not a very attractive return on the investment in training, materials and energy. War as we know it arose during the Bronze Age, when metal weapons increased each warrior's destructive power. But the carnage that we associate with ancient times didn't begin in earnest until the Iron Age, when hundreds of little "kingdoms" sprang up to harrass the cities.

The milieu of the Conan stories fits the Iron Age. A thousand years earlier, a tribe of barbarians would have had great difficulty getting their hands on enough bronze weapons to outfit an army.

R.E Howard was well read on most old legends of Atlantis, Thule, the "real" Hyperborans(Of Greek pre-history), etc. He took many real civilizations from the bronze and early iron age and transplanted them to his own made up pre-history set sometime after 15000BC(Altantis' fall), yet before 10000BC(Sons of Aryas - some kind of early egypt civ).

This moves the dawn of the Bronze Age back more than ten thousand years from its actual date.

The problem with romantic notions of cities existing thousands of years before the ones we know about is, as I said earlier, that most early technologies were just ideas. Once someone came up with an idea--such as domesticating animals instead of chasing them on their migration, so you can build a village and live in one place year-round--the idea can't help but spread quickly. There are no secret blueprints, formulas or materials to steal. If there was a city anywhere on earth in 15,000BCE, its existence and the fundamental concept of civilization (literally "the building of cities") would be known to everyone for hundreds of miles in every direction, because by definition cities employ commerce. Many of the nearby tribes would be experimenting with agriculture, cooperation, and permanent settlements and quite a few of them would get it right. Within 500 years there would be newer cities springing up over the horizon.

If a city like Atlantis had existed and was destroyed by a natural disaster, it would have left a hole in history but not a vacuum. It would not have taken 7,000 years for the next city to be built.

Conan has truly found his own kingdom...for 8 or so years I guess...

Yes, we Californians couldn't NOT elect him. It's just too damn good a story! We now have the best TV commercials for tourism and commerce of any state in the Union.

ahhhh so the Atlantean's had the tech - makes sense now. It's interesting that Atlantis has been a myth for soooo long - maybe one of the longest ?

The myth of the ancient city lost beneath the sea is what Jung calls an archetype, a motif that occurs in almost all societies in almost all eras. But the legend of Atlantis, as propagated by the Greek writers, bears too much resemblance to the factual event of the destruction of Minoan civilization on Crete in 1600BCE by a tsunami, which was caused by a volcanic eruption on the island of Thera.

The power of floods is terrifying, and floods of catastrophic magnitude occur often enough to remain established in our collective unconscious. Research suggests that the legend of Noah's flood may also be an accretion onto a factual event.

War sees a dramatic expansion of engineering endeavour. Accordingly, it is reasonable to suspect that a warrior culture (the Klingons) would create technology quicker than a pacifist culture. The Ferengi also are ardent profit seekers. As evidenced by the success of capitalism based on the profit motive, it is also reasonable to suggest they'd quickly progress their technology.

Science and engineering endeavors require massive trust and cooperation. I'll give you the Klingons since as warriors they have a strong code of honor, as illlustrated by their grudging but durable peace with the Federation since Kitomer. But the Ferengi pride themselves on trusting no one. They're my favorite aliens (Mrs. Fraggle and I quote the Rules of Acquisition to win arguments with laughter) but they're an unbelievable cartoon. In one episode we actually got to meet a Ferengi scientist who said, "I know, the concept of a Ferengi scientist is hard to believe."

[Fraggle Rocker]

Çatalhöyük: a Stone Age city. “In 1961 the British archaeologist James Mellaart began excavating a 20-meter-high hüyük (a mound built of man-made debris, otherwise known as a tel) in the Konya Plain, near the small town of Çumra. Although he failed to unearth either a cave girl's fur bikini or a stone TV, what he did discover over the next four years was every bit as exciting as fiction. Çatalhöyük turned out to be one of the most important sites not only in Turkey, but in the world.”

Journalists and other laymen play fast and loose with the meaning of the word "city" and we have to be careful of that. I looked up other references to Çatalhöyük and like most cities it started out as a village. Cities have important public buildings--temples are often the first--and so far we can't tell when the first one was erected there. Cities are also big enough to force people to learn to live in harmony and cooperation with strangers--the transcendence of our species's pack-social instinct and a major step toward fulfilling our (putative) destiny of becoming a single worldwide community. I can't tell how big Çatalhöyük was but it needs to be big enough for at least 300 people.

Nonetheless, when calculating the age of a city we generally ignore the technicalities and date its age to its founding, even if it was founded as something less than a proper city. Çatalhöyük dates to about 7500BCE, which makes it 1,500 years younger than Jericho, in Palestine, which is generally acknowledged as the oldest continuously-inhabited city on earth and may be the oldest city, period.

The reason the distinction is important, however, is that civilization is a paradigm-shifting technology. As noted, civilization requires people to override their primitive pack-social instinct, which can only be done with reasoned and learned behavior. Agriculture was an earlier paradigm-shifting technology, which both allowed and required us to give up our nomadic lifestyle--living in small extended-family units of hunter-gatherers--and bring multiple families together to live in harmony and cooperation in a permanent settlement. It's important to distinguish between the Agricultural Revolution, which began around 9500BCE (in the Middle East and somewhat later in other regions) and the Dawn of Civilization, which allowed and required total strangers to come together.

Toffler and other futurists do not count civilization as a paradigm shift and I think their model and our understanding of human history and psychology suffer for the oversight. To this day, the most intractable problems in cities--crime, noise, trash, rudeness, etc.--can almost all be traced to our not-quite-total adaptation to living happily among complete strangers.

[Prince_James]

Fraggle Rocker:

Science and engineering endeavors require massive trust and cooperation. I'll give you the Klingons since as warriors they have a strong code of honor, as illlustrated by their grudging but durable peace with the Federation since Kitomer. But the Ferengi pride themselves on trusting no one. They're my favorite aliens (Mrs. Fraggle and I quote the Rules of Acquisition to win arguments with laughter) but they're an unbelievable cartoon. In one episode we actually got to meet a Ferengi scientist who said, "I know, the concept of a Ferengi scientist is hard to believe."

Even if there is a lack of trust, engineering has a profit motive which would probably draw enough together. Ferengi surely have guilds and businesses and such. Engineers are clearly going to be there to make stuff for them, including space ships, weapons, that sort of thing.

[Pandaemoni]

The problem with the Klingons is that everyone wants to be a warrior. Wars may engender engineering advances here on Earth, but by and large it's not the soldiers on the front lines who make them. In the same TNG episode where we met a ferengi scientist, we saw a klingon one, and she made it clear that scientists had a pretty low status in the klingon pecking order. presumably a break-through would improve that, but it seems they get zero points until that break through is achieved.

It's a wonder they had warp drive or cloaking technology. They must have gotten it from the Hurk that conquered them.

[nietzschefan]

Uhh well I know this thread wound up in the History forum, but you know Fraggle we are all talking about a bullshit story right?

Regarding smelting iron - yes all it requires is a hot forge. But that's just some iron. Make a sword out of it and strike a good bronze(or maybe even copper) blade and though it may bend or dent the other, a simple iron sword or short blade would just shatter. Pushing out the carbons, takes it to a whole new level and requires a bunch of other materials, skill and "knowledge" - not blueprint knowledge, but certainly something not easily just figured out just because someone else is growing your food.