05-12-08, 09:29 AM #1
I would like to know the belief of atheists on what consitute reality
what is reality for them?
Then I want to challenge their belief. (EDIT: not really what I want a the end itself, in fact I want to see if it differs from my view and other theist views, challenging is still part of my job if I feel it the view inconsistent)
So everybody is invited but it would be better first to listen carefully to what the atheists have to say.
Last edited by ronan; 05-14-08 at 12:37 AM.
05-12-08, 09:34 AM #2
One stumbling block that you have given yourself, is that you have already stated that you want to challenge their beleif - so you've clearly already made up your mind on what atheists think, and that it's wrong before you've even had an answer - in that respect, you may as well just go straight ahead and challenge it before anyone gives an answer - as you're not going to listen are you
Are you SAM in disguise?
05-12-08, 09:50 AM #3
Well i can't speak for anyone else, but not believing in god qualifies me as an athiest. i think organisms are equipped with the ability to experience sensations and lead meaningful lives, and that because i can't explain how the universe was created doesn't mean that it had to be god. I wouldn't mind having a religion, it'd be nice to believe that to be happy all i had to do was what a book told me to.
I've heard some religious people saying 'isn't it worth the risk of getting into heaven? why don't u just come to church?'. I don't like God's abandoning of everyone to hell, for the sake of them choosing their own life, when he was the one who gave them free will. its like pulling a trigger then not taking responsibility for the bullet. What right does lucifer have to torment our eternal souls? why has god given him such power? what crime deserves eternal damnation?
just wanting to point out athiests don't really have gatherings, scriptures etc. yet we're seen as the opposite side to religion, and as such have to compete with your collection of works, clergy etc.. i'm not trying to make a point of my athiesm, i just think religion is a crock of shit. am currently studying religion at uni, so call my opinion foolish but not uneducated.
05-12-08, 09:57 AM #4
05-12-08, 10:00 AM #5
just checking it out, thought it'd be useful knowing about something people take seriously. you learn a lot about society, a little about history.
05-12-08, 10:11 AM #6
Then I want to challenge their belief.
How about you begin by describing what you think is reality and we can contrast that with potential alternatives.
05-12-08, 10:17 AM #7
05-12-08, 10:21 AM #8
05-12-08, 10:23 AM #9
I'm not an atheist but I'd like to put forth my notions of reality.
Reality to me is inference. Perception is data, my senses and experience are the tools I use to interpret the data. The result is reality, my inference of the data accessible to my senses and interpreted by my knowledge and experience.
05-12-08, 10:25 AM #10
Every graduate student who stands up to defend a thesis knows its going to be challenged.
To fear your ideas being challenged is contrary to rational discourse.
05-12-08, 10:30 AM #11
We usually present our thesis to the department and anyone can challenge or question an idea. That said, if you are unable to defend your idea for fear of hostility, thats another, personal issue. One does not need to convince an ally as much as one needs to convince an opponent.
05-12-08, 10:45 AM #12
I don't know what reality is, I don't think any of us experience it.
05-12-08, 10:57 AM #13
synthesizer-patel, I am sorry to appeared so rude, I am not here for fighting but for having fun. as SAM said, do not be afraid of your belief
codanblad, why are you so upset? The debate not even started. and please give only your realism first, then you can attack the attack given on your realism.
cris, I have other threads to express my opinion, I created this thread especially for the atheist to express their view of what is reality. please feel free to express your view.
Spidergoat, do you want to say that we do not know reality because of a present lack of knowledge or because of an impossibility to know the reality?
05-12-08, 11:00 AM #14
We can only experience reality indirectly. Knowledge isn't reality, it's a model, which will always be incomplete. Even if we discover all the physical laws and symmetries, all the manifestations of them are infinite. There is no self that experiences reality, even indirectly. The self is a construct of the mind, an illusion.
05-12-08, 11:07 AM #15
Spidergoat, are you a theist?
If not , can you understand and agree with the belief of a theist that consider that god=reality (as you described it) ?
05-12-08, 11:12 AM #16
I've got a model of a toothache and it really feels as if it belongs to me. I know I am an illusion but I sure feel real.
05-12-08, 11:12 AM #17
A better way to approach it would have been in a debate format - i.e "I beleive atheists consider reality in XYZ way - and I can prove it with ABC, they are wrong because 123 - discuss"
just a suggestion like
05-12-08, 11:13 AM #18
I'm an atheist. I think the application of that term is problematic, it implies a sentience, a plan, where none seems to exist. Any term would be a reduction, a symbol, for the complexity of reality. Why do we need a term. "The universe" works well enough. There is too much cultural baggage associated with "God". For one thing, it means we should be more inclined to accept the demands of Kings and Priests who claim to be doing God's will.
05-12-08, 11:19 AM #19
05-12-08, 11:20 AM #20
Originally Posted by ronan
Which ones did you have in mind ?
Originally Posted by ronan
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