Universal health care. Why the states should have it.

Discussion in 'Politics' started by pjdude1219, Apr 21, 2008.

  1. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    the united states should have Universal heath care for several reasons. The reasons are economic, moral/ethical, and cultural.
    Moral reasons: The united states is the only industrialized nation that does not guarantee of health care to its citizens. The states view health care as a economic good not, as other countries do, a social or public good. 80% of the uninsured are hard working Americans who are employed or are from working families.However, they are unable to obtain insurance through their work either because their employer does not offer it, their employer does offer it but the employer share of the premium is too expensive, or they are not eligible for health insurance (e.g. they are part-time or have not worked long enough at the job)
    the uninsured are the ones who are hit the hardest
    The uninsured are less likely to be able to fill prescriptions and more likely to pay much more of their money out-of-pocket for prescriptions.
    The uninsured are 3-4 times more likely than those with insurance to report problems getting needed medical care, even for serious conditions.
    The uninsured are less likely to have a regular source of health care.
    The uninsured are less likely to get needed preventive care.
    The uninsured are more likely to be forced to delay medical services, affecting the timeline of diagnosis and thus the prognosis of the disease process.
    The uninsured are more likely to receive poor care for chronic diseases.
    the insured are also affected.The most direct way in which the insured are affected by the lack of universal health care is illustrated by a 2005 study that surveyed people who filed for personal bankruptcy. In this study, 46.2% of those surveyed cited a medical cause for their bankruptcy. Of note, only 32.6% of those citing a medical cause of bankruptcy were uninsured at the time of filing, meaning that almost 7 out of 10 people in the survey were insured when they filed.
    The economic reason: there are many compelling economic reasons for Universal health care.
    How much would it cost?
    The additional health care that would be used by the uninsured if they had insurance:35-69 billion
    The cost of covering the out-of-pocket costs the uninsured currently pay:26 billion
    The cost of covering uncompensated care costs provided by hospitals, physicians, and other providers to the uninsured:34.5 billion
    What are the costs of not achieving universal health care?
    Fewer years of participation in the workforce:65-100 billion
    Developmental losses for children
    Cost to public programs
    the cultural reasons: Universal health care has cultural reason as well which will be shown next. Without it there is a threat to the American dream.
    Having a close family
    Having the freedom to make decisions about your life
    Being able to provide for yourself and your family
    these all are affected by the lack of Universal health care.
    Basic American values are in tune with Universal healthcare.
    equal opportunity
    life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
    economic efficiency
    source:http://www.amsa.org/uhc/CaseForUHC.pdf
    sources documentation for the people here to lazy or to stupid to find and check it themselves:
    1. http://www.kff.org/insurance/7315.cfm
    2. http://www.kff.org/medicaid/7334-02.cfm
    3. http://www.kff.org/uninsured/7451.cfm
    4. http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3809/4660/4333.aspx
    5. http://www.amsa.org/uhc/AMSAUninsuredPrimer.pdf
    6. http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3809/4660/4356.aspx
    7. http://www.demos.org/pubs/Harvard_MedDebtFeb05.pdf
    8. http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3809/4660/12313.aspx
    9. http://weblamp.princeton.edu/~chw/papers/healthinsceaugust2003.pdf
    10. http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3809/4660/5404.aspx
    11. http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/334/10/642 not full report
    12. will get later
    13. will get later
    14. will get later
    15. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8129876/from/RL.2/
    16. will get later
    17. will get later
    18. will get later
     
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  3. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    It already has a health care, they are Medicare and Medicaid. Also most cities have hospitals who will help those without insurances by either a very lower cost or no cost treatment for those who qualift.

    Instead why not ask why companies won't pay for the insurances for theiur employees?:shrug: Strange that those who you work for won;t help you with medical insurances isn't it?

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  5. Cazzo Registered Senior Member

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    Hell insurance wouldn't be such a problem if it weren't for the mulit-million dollar lawsuits that lawyers bash hospitals with. Now days, lawyers don't just go after the doctors, but the nurses, and anyone else they find even remotely related to a case.
    There's some states that are losing insurance companies for doctors because of frivolous lawsuits brought by lawyers; this drives up rates at hospitals and insurance rates in general.

    A couple hundred years ago, NOBODY had health insurance; now everybody thinks they're entitled to have it at the expense of everyone else.....................how times have changed.
     
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  7. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    read my source it will explain it to you.
     
  8. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Whenever I go into a new doctors office today many times I'm given a document to read and sign. It states that the doctor doesn't have malpractice insurance.
     
  9. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

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    2,267
    Yes - for the better thankfully - in the civilised world at least.

    There's a phrase used in many parts of the world which goes:

    "for the greater good"

    In terms of healthcare it means that the cost to a society of NOT having universal free healthcare (even in fiscal terms alone - although the true cost goes way beyond this) is far greater that the cost to taxpayers of having to provide it.

    This is why in Great Britain where we have one of the finest UFHC systems in the world, the average life expectancy of our poorest people is 3 years longer than the average life expectancy of the richest Americans (of course this doesn't stop us complaining ahout the National Health service

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    The R&D argument doesn't really stack up - indeed there's a great deal of work done over here to make previously prohibitively expensive treatments cheaper, more efficient, and more affordable - for the simple fact that we have limited resource to pay for this - which flies in the face of the "private sector is cheaper and more efficient" argument

    The argument that UFHC causes waiting lists is equally misleading - yes we have waiting lists - but in most circumstances this is due to patients with urgent need for immediate treatment being dealt with first - if your operation isn't urgent and can wait - then it will.
    You tell me what's the better system - treatment decided by ability to pay, or decided by who has the greatest need for treatment?

    Of course we have the option of private healthcare too - if you want immediate treatment and can pay for it - you can have it - and our NHS facilities are so good that private treatments are provided by the same doctors in the same hospitals.
     
  10. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

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    5,191
    Universal health care is for people who can't naturally provide for themselves; thus, they need the rest of us to make up for their own natural inadequacies.

    Strangely, they're the same folks who think their beloved darwinism shouldn't apply to them.

    I'm a big-D Darwinist.

    Suck it up and die with some publicly acclaimed honor, if you can possess nothing else in support of your sorry existence.

    My guns trump your presumption to the right of eminent domain.

    Big D talking, Nancy.
     
  11. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    WTF?
     
  12. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

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    Vanna has a vowel for you.
     
  13. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    16,479
    Vanna can blow me
     
  14. Captain Kremmen All aboard, me Hearties! Valued Senior Member

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    PJ you are addressing a really important point here.
    In a rich country like America, basic good quality healthcare is essential.
    And should have been available 50 yearsa go.

    In the UK we have had free healthcare for over 50 years, and we take it for granted. You need the same in the US.

    One criticism. Your definition of the people who might want to look at your sources did not encourage me to look at them. I don't know if you can still change your original post, but it might be a good idea if you want to get your point across.
     
  15. redarmy11 Registered Senior Member

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    7,658
    And one of those was... Darwin.

    His theory was descriptive, not prescriptive. He wrote specifically against applying his observations to human society. He regarded any suggestion of this as... inhuman.

    Here in Britain, we have one of the best free healthcare systems in the world. It works well. We're happy with it, and extremely proud of our dedicated doctors and nurses.
     
  16. ElectricFetus Sanity going, going, gone Valued Senior Member

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    Britain ranks 18th in mean quality of Health care in the world,
    http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
    France is #1 (those dastardly French!), all the top 10 countries have high levels of universal health care, France is a combined socialist-capitalist health care system with universal health care safety net with 85% of the populace paying for cooperate supplemental insurance on top of that government health care taxes. It should be noted that the French pay the 2nd highest per person in health care (average: ~$4000 per person), #1 is of course the USA (average: ~$8000 per person) and of course being a system design to profit off it costumers rather then help them the USA has a Health care quality rating of 37th despite paying the most for health care by far!
     
  17. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    Also, healthcare for profit makes doctors bedside manner go awry.
    Seriously. Even though It's crap quality healthcare in Aus, It's better than nothing.
     
  18. pjdude1219 The biscuit has risen Valued Senior Member

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    only one source the rest is the sources source
     

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