So often we've heard that human sexuality is immutable, set in stone, but the father of modern sexuality theories, Alfred Kinsey, could not disagree more. Kinsey Reports The Journal of American Psychotherapy JAPA provides further evidence Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! MacIntosh Report The statistical analysis is in the report for members of JAPA. Can anyone get into their archives? So why all the handwaving from gay-activists about "peer-reviewed studies" and "traditionally trained" therapists harming people? This isn't rational.
But would Jesus be comfortable with that Pope? :bugeye: I pray by his side towards heavens sent' are my thoughts, yet he hears my pleas not of discomfort for such, but what say you?
I see the report has no serious challenge. Well, I guess that means we can write off a gay-political-activist claim about "no peer-reviewed studies" documenting change. So sexuality is immutable is it? Where's the credibility? :shrug:
Welcome back, Woody. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Did prison change your sexual orientation at all?
Yes, as it's a waste of time to "challenge" a strawman argument. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Let's see, 285 psychoanalysts, 1215 gay patients. That comes out to four or five per analyst. Not very many. There are a lot of gay people out there and they undergo therapy as often as the rest of us, if not more. I'd say the average shrink has had a lot more than four or five gay patients. So apparently the gay patients who agreed to undergo this course of therapy were a small subset of all the gay patients. Perhaps the ones who were feeling ambivalent to start with? There's a steady percentage of people who are perceived as gay but are actually bisexual. Maybe these are the people who go to a shrink and start talking clinically about their sexuality. Hey, I've been to three shrinks and it never occurred to me to talk about my sexuality! I wonder what motivates a person to do that? Or are we to believe that all gay people walk into therapy and start talking about their sexuality, when very few of us straight people do that? But anyway, 23% of this subset of these analysts's gay patients changed to straight. Wait a minute, that's an average of only one per shrink! Did they follow up a few years later to see if they were "still straight," or if it was the powerful suggestions in the therapy sessions that made them "experiment" with it and they eventually went back to their "normal" lives? These are some pretty flaky statistics! I wouldn't read too much into them. Remember, just because SciForums has a subforum called "Human Science" doesn't mean that anyone has actually found a way to apply the scientific method rigorously to the study of humans. After all, we also have one called "Business and Economics."
What if it were a choice? Sexual freedom (between consenting adults) should be a right as much as religious freedom.
So.... you can do arithmatic.... So, what's so odd about that. Many of the therapists were grad students if you read the report. Some hadn't been in practice very long. Others hadn't even seen a gay patient before (if you read the report). No it was mainly just a random sampling of analysts with patients that went for any reason whatsoever, and did not go to "treat homosexuality" as explained in the report. Hetero, homo, and bisexual are all SOCIAL CONSTRUCTS, not scientific ones. Kinsey Reports "Kinsey himself avoided and disapproved of using terms like homosexual or heterosexual to describe individuals, asserting that sexuality is prone to change over time, and that sexual behavior can be understood both as physical contact as well as purely psychological phenomena (desire, sexual attraction, fantasy)." People just go to therapy for whatever is ailing them. The analysts that participated in the study are credible. And those analysts were not conversion therapists. They were just doing their jobs as "conventional analysts." No study on human behavior will ever provide perfect information. That's just a fact of life. There is always a risk of error no matter how large the sample size, and no matter how accurate the measurement tool. But that doesn't prevent reasonable conclusions. It all went into a peer-reviewed publication. I don't hear the peers complaining. AS I said before , human sexuality is a social construct, not a scientific one. When people demand "scientific studies" they might as well measure a mud puddle with a micrometer. Anyway I presented the study and it came from a very highly regarded psychoanalytic publication. You have your opinion, and I have data.:shrug:
This guy sounds like an utter tosspot, and obviously doesn't know the first thing about being homosexual, or even genetics at that.
I know a guy who was homosexual and then said that after he gone through counseling at his church and with a psychologist he said that he had been cured of his "affliction" and was no worthy in the eyes of God. So this change meant a whole lot to him and he started dating women. Then his personality changed and he became all introverted and boring. He got married and had a baby and last time I heard from him he had gotten a divorce and was living with his new boyfriend. So this is an example of just how well therapy works, but perhaps he had a bad therapist. Whatever makes you happy, what difference does it make if sexual orientation does change over the course of a lifetime or not?
You cannot be cured of hormones. Whatever ''cured'' means. To do that, every single strand of DNA would need to instantaneously ''morph'' or ''quantum leap'' into a new configuration, and that is impossible next to science. If any gay man says their feelings changed, then they where bisexual to begin with. I am absolutely sick to the brim with psychologists and the like saying that sexuality can simply change over night. It can't change, never mind over night.
