Something is Wrong.

Discussion in 'Pseudoscience Archive' started by pharaohmoan, Feb 26, 2008.

  1. pharaohmoan The illusion is you, let go. Registered Senior Member

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    OK, based on what i've learnt, what i see arround me in the world and my own spirituality I am convinced and cannot help but think we have fallen from a previous state of grace.

    I have to bring God into this thread which I have concluded using logic and reason exists. If you don't believe in God then for the purpose of this thread can you make the suposition that there is a higher order in the universe and at the top of the hieriarchy there is someone in charge. I don't beleive consciousness would have arrisen if it were not for someone who first introduced it. I believe this same person tweaked like to a stage where we could communicate with each other and express ourselves.

    Now I want you to imagine that we existed previously in a state of grace, just as a hypothesis for now. Now logically speaking assuming there is a God or at least someone in charge then surely his agenda is happiness for all right. Now take a snapshot of earth as it is , we have pain and suffering, famine, war, torture, poverty, murder and to top it off it is we often keep innocent animals especially cattle in terribly confined conditions. Now I don't believe a compasionate God or leader would allow harm to come to humans or animals in the doses it has done in any shape or form. Now if you believe in karma you could play that card in defense of God and blame the woes of the individual on their previous acts, but there is no way 6 billion human and untold 10's billions of animal entities have all been 'bad'. IOW we are all suffering together, suffering for real and also suffering because we are not in a state of grace. So the question is why are we not in a state of grace?

    OK now here is where I'm serious as to the possible why. What if the big bang was not the first spark of life/action/cause/movement but rather was an accident. IOW the physical laws were already in place and the elements already born before the big bang. But something caused all of space time including God to converge on one tiny point in space. What could have caused that convergence? So far I only have one answer that jumps out logically......an anomoly caused the big bang. An anomoly caused consciousness, life, light and the elements to converge on one point. The alternative to an anomoly is that it was a conscious effort by all, an out with the old in with the new hypothesis. The other hypothesis is this - something went terribly wrong, and that is what interests me. Now previous to the big bang I suspect that the universe was like an ocean and we communicated telepathically, also mind and matter were one. Thoughts (as I believe they still do) travelled faster than the speed of light and we were able to communicate over vast distances instantly. There was no chaos only trial after trial with God as the Conductor/General. Now I have 2 propositions for what may have gone wrong and I'd like to hear your comments.

    1. For the first time the universe as it was then (or maybe there was no universe but only space and consciousness) experienced the force of a black hole which sucked all of space time into it, critical mass was reached and bang you have the most almighty explosion ever. This for me explains why matter is so dense to the touch compared with dreams and OOB experiences where the individual can actually pass through matter.

    2. In our state of grace (pre big-bang) we first experienced a nagative traight in out midsts for example hate evil fear etc. This spread through existance like a drop of black paint in a tin of white and cause a cataclismic breakdown of all sytems leading to the pre big bang convergence and the reformation of existence and our loss of memory and awareness of our previous state.

    So how do we fix the problem we have at hand with the current state of affairs and being so far removed from a state of grace, I think we've suffered long enough. If we do nothing there is a possibility us and the generations to come will become trapped here, or at least in this universe and the world will just become one giant recylcling bin. knowledge is key here and I truly believe we have to take some leaps of faith combined with known science and history if we are to succeed in our quest for true happiness. Any thoughts?

    P.S. - Maybe God hasn't answered us or given proof of his existence because he's in the same mess we are!
     
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  3. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Before you build on this premise, you should detail your logic and reasoning.

    So, why is it 'logical' that God exists?
     
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  5. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    What is spirituality?
     
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  7. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    Right there is where you lost me. I can't see that is possible at all.
     
  8. Hipparchia Registered Senior Member

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    Was this person conscious? If so where did their consciousness come from. If not by what means, and for what purpose did they introduce consciousness, given that they themselves were unconscious?
     
  9. Seems this discussion is leading to Asyria. A lost city, near the Sea of Galilea.

    When walking to the known vs. unknown, many question whether there may be an after-life.
    Most World's religions do, in fact. The actual discovery by these lines, is often the classic escaping visible ghosts. Wisps, of approximately so many oz.'s

    These much speculation, and many would wonder. No one really knows, maybe. Unless you ask a reincarnationists, to bring you the newspaper. Dog-bone funny. Joke.

    Seriously, This commercializing on Death has begun to be big business. As, many have recognized, in some small way, the get to Deal in it/With it.
     
  10. Pinocchio's Hoof Pay the Devil, or else.......£ Registered Senior Member

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    :zzz:

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    uke::zzz:
     
  11. Pinocchio's Hoof Pay the Devil, or else.......£ Registered Senior Member

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    Ignore this post.
     
  12. pharaohmoan The illusion is you, let go. Registered Senior Member

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    I base my logic basically on what Aristotal said:

    There is something moving.
    Everything that moves is put into motion by something else.
    But this series of antecedent movers cannot reach back infinitely.
    Therefore, there must be a first mover (which is god).

    Come on, where do I start it's a bit of a long list. To quote my friend Pinnocio Hoof it is The Equilibrium of internal Harmony

    You mean you can't make the suposition that there might be an order to the universe?

    That is probably one of the ultimate questions for God. How did God become conscious? A bit akin to the chicken and egg situation, in other words a riddle without answer.
     
  13. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    Do you mean Aristotle?


    Why? Purely because he found the idea inconvenient? That isn't logic, in fact, it's blatantly contradictory.
     
  14. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    That requirs me to go against common sense and logic with the facts that I can research today about the universe.
     
  15. Ahhhh, yessss. Mythos.

    Preferred now -- Minataur. A mythical Bull-man, fully degreed. B.S.

    Mazes, led to destruct. Apt description of rage. Enter the Centaur, with hissh flutes.
     
  16. pharaohmoan The illusion is you, let go. Registered Senior Member

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    The one and only

    Well for me it is logical, you are obviously wired differently. It doesn't make sense to me that there is no begining to movement.


    Well for me order in the universe is common sense and the universal symetry found in the physical laws points to an organisation for me, not mere accident.
     
  17. Fables, are another word for the "Wise"-lie.

    Take, for instance. The crow-raven-Symbolic Death. Dropping in precisely 13 undetermined stones, to raise a __JUG__ of water, by exactly one half it's increased volume. So, as to 'sup' of the moisture.

    Twist of Fate, as luck would have it, many 'pollutants' infect the water. Poison the Well, or scrub well, I guess?
     
  18. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

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    And that's your right to BELIEVE in anything you want, just remember it is a belief not a fact.
     
  19. Crunchy Cat F-in' *meow* baby!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Why?
     
  20. pharaohmoan The illusion is you, let go. Registered Senior Member

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    just found out that there is already a theory for a pre big bang universe it called the Ekpyrotic Theory but isn't well accepted.
     
  21. shichimenshyo Caught in the machine Registered Senior Member

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    English?

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  22. Hipparchia Registered Senior Member

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    But you say with great clarity:
    I don't beleive(sic) consciousness would have arrisen(sic) if it were not for someone who first introduced it.
    There is no point in calling it a riddle. You clearly believe that consciousnes can arise for the first time at some point, yet you insist this must have occured to an entity who may or may not exist, but you will not accept that it may have arisen for the first time in entities that are known to exist.
    Illogical.:shrug:
     
  23. phlogistician Banned Banned

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    But you can accept that there is no beginning to God? That is where the contradiction lies. 'Everything must have a beginning' is the premise. Except you argue things can't regress for ever, so there must have been an event without a beginning, you call that 'God' and then your initial premise is proven to be false, thus falsifying the conclusion that God created everything.

    Get it? Aristotle's logic was flawed. Even if it were sound, it still doen't prove anything! It's abstract, not real.
     

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